Women of Fenn College Oral History Project
Margaret Rogan (BBA, Business, 1950)
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Interview conducted through Cleveland State University's Mary Joyce Green Women's Center.
Transcript:
SPEAKER 1: --Fenn College, class of 1950. And Marge will reflect on her years at Fenn and her life thereafter, and the influence Fenn might have had on her life in some way or another. But we'll start, just about Marge, you're a native Clevelander?
MARGE: I'm born and raised in Cleveland, let's see, January 2nd, 1926. I was born at St. Ann's Hospital, I don't think it still is there anymore. And my parents lived on Kinsman, off Kinsman on the East side. And then, my dad always had a business of some kind, and my mother and dad would manage businesses. And then, eventually we moved to the West Side.
My first home was West 59th off Lorain Avenue. And then, we bought a bigger business on West 73rd and Lawn that's where I had to learn to work. It was Mom and Dad's business, but I worked all-- I was the oldest of three, and I always had to work in the store. And I guess that's where I acquired my business ethics.
And then I graduated from West High school, January '44. It was during the war, and I was too young to be in the service, women had to be 21 at that time. So then I went to an airline school in Kansas City, Missouri, and then I worked for TWA at LaGuardia Field for a while.
And then I went with stockbrokers, I didn't like that. So then I went to work for stockbrokers on Wall Street, and I really enjoyed that. The lifestyle and the men were so funny and friendly. And then, it was, let's see, 1945. I got a $500 bonus at Christmas which was a lot of money, so then I decided-- the guys at work said, go back to Cow Town-- Cleveland, they used to call it-- and go to college. So I took their advice.
I signed up at Fenn in 1946, January, because I wanted to get a business degree and I wanted to be a stockbroker. But I was told when I graduated by Miss Bloomquist that women would not be accepted as a stockbroker. She advised me to go into business teaching, which I did, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I started to teach. Soon as I got my degree, there was an adult school across from Fenn where all these guys, these GIs coming back, and I taught teaching. I taught there that summer teaching English because I had a major in Business but a minor in English, so I taught.
And I taught shorthand and typing in business, before computers. And then my first teaching job was Rock Creek, Ohio. And back to my college days, I was very active in school. I think, well, I got a pin here that says I was the corresponding secretary of the student council. And I think I wrote for The Cauldron, and I know I was in the choir. And I can't remember--
SPEAKER 1: The sorority also [INAUDIBLE]
MARGE: Oh, the sorority. What was the name of it? The Omega Epsilon?
SPEAKER 1: Omega Epsilon.
MARGE: It was a very small sorority. I wasn't with the originals of it, but I did belong to the sorority. And I used to hang around mostly with the liberal arts students. I didn't hang around with business kids much, so I used to do a lot in sociology classes. And then I worked part-time, of course. That was part of the program, we called it--
SPEAKER 1: Cooperative Edge?
MARGE: Cooperative Edge. I worked at a paper company, and then I worked part-time-- I think it was out at Case for chemistry. They were experimenting with latex, that was during the rubber-- during the war, they would-- synthetic rubber was latex, they called it. And then I was always busy.
And let's see-- during my college days, I know the big thing was I went to Europe, I went till 1947. Right after the war was over, my dad came from Italy when he was 16 and never had been back to visit his parents. So I spent my 21st birthday in Italy.
We were one of the first commercial planes to travel between the United States and Europe. It was a Constellation. It was a prop plane, it wasn't even a jet, and that was TWA. And I went-- I know there was a story about me in The Cauldron, and that was one of the big experiences of my life.
And then I came back and finished college. And I think on college, oh yeah, once I ran for prom queen. Harvest Prom, I think it's called. The sorority submitted me. I was there, but I didn't win. But I had my picture all over this Panel Hall or down in the lobby at Fenn.
And I still remember running up the stairs to go to classes. We had the student-- I think, the Student Union building down in the first floor. And I remember we would have to go upstairs. I didn't spend much time playing cards in Panel Hall, there were a lot of kids that used to do that.
[LAUGHTER]
And then I used to go down to the, what was it? The little place-- Sass? Was it Sod?
SPEAKER 1: Sadd's.
MARGE: Sadd's. I used to go down there with some kids, some time. And then we had quonset huts. We went to classes in Quonset huts. And I took most of my-- I was a business major, so most of my classes-- I got a Bachelor of Business, BBA. Most of them, I had to meet all those requirements. But I did take enough classes to get my teaching credential once I found out I couldn't be a stockbroker, so I had to go get some of those major classes in teaching.
And then, eventually I had to go down for my-- I went one summer down to Kent right after I graduated to get more English classes. I took literature classes in English history because in order to get the Ohio teaching credential, you had to have so many units for your minor.
So then I ended up-- and I think I was very active in Fenn. I know as a student, I loved it. Just didn't have to take the streetcar to college every morning. And I studied a lot. And I remember, we didn't have that big of a library at Fenn, so I used to use the Cleveland Public Library for research all the time. And I just-- is it OK?
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
MARGE: And then I just-- I remember the Cleveland Indians won the pennant that year. One of those years.
SPEAKER 1: '48.
MARGE: '48. And they marched, and there were big parades down Euclid Avenue. And we all went out from college to root them on, we went outside. And I think I did have a picture in the paper once with-- was he Senator Burton? Was he a State Senator? He visited--
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
MARGE: --the college once. I have a picture of him that was in the paper, and he was visiting college students. But there weren't many women, but we were all very active women. We were just-- and to this day, I still keep in touch with some of my friends from college.
But I do feel Fenn really established my values. I really do. And I was the first in my family to graduate from college, I'm Italian immigrants, and my mother always was very much into education. She just pushed me and pushed me all the time. And I think I could have gotten married if I wanted to because there were enough men around, but I never married [LAUGHS] until I was 32 and I had my career.
And then after graduating, I-- let's see, I taught at Rock Creek, Ohio, a little high school where I taught everything. I think there were about three teachers in the high school. And then I couldn't take it. I left after one year. The kids were-- that was their social life, and I couldn't understand that. I didn't even know what a silo was, and they got days off to fill the silo.
[LAUGHTER]
And then I moved on one year, and then I went to Ravenna Township, which I really liked. And lived in Kent, and I took more classes at Kent. I was starting to work on my master's degree.
And then I went to Brooklyn High School which was right off 73rd there in Ridge Road, and it was a brand new high school and really new community, and I really enjoyed it. It was wonderful, school, and I don't know any-- David Birney, the movie star, was one of my students at that time.
SPEAKER 1: Wow.
MARGE: Yeah. And I saw Elvis.
SPEAKER 1: Were you at that school?
MARGE: I was at the high school when Elvis performed the first time, and Bill Haley and the Comets, and Pat Boone even came out. It was Bill Randle that brought them all out there. It was difficult to accept Elvis though, I wasn't quite sure what was happening in this world.
And then I got, I always had a lot of throat and ear problems. So when I took the flu shot, I got really sick and doctors told me to go out west. So I moved out. I moved to Phoenix, Arizona. It was just a little pioneer town that wasn't even-- I don't think there was-- many of the streets weren't even paved then. There was still a lot of Indians, you know, the Indian people there. And then I couldn't even take air conditioning, so I did door-to-door selling the first summer there because of my ears and my throat.
And then I met my husband, Bill Freeman. He was an air traffic controller. He was a private pilot and a flying instructor, so it was interesting life. He loved to fly, and I loved to fly also.
And then we moved to Thermal, he was transferred to Thermal Airport which is one of the hottest places in the nation, and we lived in a little town called Coachella. And when they found out I was a credentialed Ohio teacher, they just grabbed me. The principal, superintendent, grabbed me and got all my credentials in order, so I taught sixth grade there.
And then we moved around a lot. My husband was transferred, so I lived in various places in California like Ontario and Bakersfield, Oxnard and Escondido. And then my husband had to take a medical retirement. Air traffic controllers take the same physical pilots do each year on their birthday, he was only 40, he was in his 40s.
So then we moved back to Coachella, and then I taught high school there at Coachella Valley Unified High School and I became very active with teaching. We had two sons in school, and my husband was very active with the parents group. And so, eventually, we just made a life there. A good life. It was 99.9 Hispanic people, mostly migrant farm workers. A very interesting life. I really liked it. I'm very fond of that lifestyle, of the hot weather. It got very hot, though.
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] OK?
MARGE: Is it OK? Let me see. Let's see, what else? So I would do a lot of things in school. I taught elementary, adult ed. I really liked teaching. And then I had to get my fifth year in California. So at that time, to get a teaching credential you had to have five years. That was early in the '60s.
So I did a lot. I taught migrant ed, I was a coordinator for migrant ed. That was a big program where migrant farm workers got special tutors in the classroom. I don't know if that still exists today, but it was a very controversial program. They had to be identified as migrant farmworkers because they moved around for the crops, but they did get special tutoring in the schools.
And then, eventually I taught high school before computers taught business shorthand and typing, and English, business math. But I always emphasized, although the kids would go to college, I always emphasize that they should have some business classes to fall back on as they were working their way through college.
And then I eventually retired, and then I ran for school board in the Coachella Valley Unified School District and I was elected. The only woman, that was in the-- let's see, I retired in '59-- no, when did I retire? I was 59, I didn't retire. Let's see, I retired in 1984. That's right.
And I was the only woman on the school board, and there were very few women too at that time. Principal, we only had one principal in the school district that was a woman. But eventually-- the 16 years I spent there, I saw so many changes. We had more women principals and women on the school board. That was the period of time when I think women really became very active. It was in the '60s and the '70s and the '80s.
And I admired-- some of the women I met were migrant farm workers, but worked their way up to become principals and teachers. And they had a lot of programs at that time for women who wanted to go to college, minority women. And a lot of them started out as aides because, see, with all the bilingual education, they had to have bilingual people in the classroom.
Most of the teachers in the school district did not speak Spanish, so that's why they had these programs where migrant farm workers, Migrant Program was very big. I don't know if people realize that, but in California it was very big, and a lot of funding went into it.
And then I-- let's see. I've spent 16 years on the school board. In the meantime, my husband died. And we became very active in the community, he did. He was a very eloquent speaker. He liked his beer and cigarettes, so he did mingle with the Mexicans very well. [LAUGHS] That was a joke. And he did teach adult ed flying, he taught aviation.
But then he became very active in the community because we had-- this was Highway 86, it was a main route between Mexico and 10, which is the main route to Los Angeles. All the farmworkers, all the produce and cattle and everything was sent to the Los Angeles markets. And it was a two lane highway, and the school buses traveled that also because the school district covered 1,200 square miles. It was a big school district, mostly rural.
And he eventually worked very hard, and was able to get a four-- he assumed leadership-- a four lane expressway. And he died in the meantime, so I assumed leadership of this group also. But he does have his name, Bill Freeman Highway.
And then I stayed. Being on the school board for 16 years was, I think, one of the big things. I was also chosen a Woman of the Year for the 80th Assembly District. I don't know if California has-- Ohio has assembly districts, it's like a state thing. And this was not congressional, but a state assembly district, and I was selected as a Woman of the Year because of my involvement with the highway and my involvement with the libraries.
I was always big with the libraries. And Coachella, I used to be on the Coachella city rep to the county library because most of the libraries in these small towns were county libraries. They were all funded by the county, they were not city libraries. And then, well, I think nowadays it's a little different. California really grew their systems. They outgrew their county systems, and became city systems, mostly because of the growth. And that was a nice thing.
I went to Sacramento, and I was honored, and I got an award for my Woman of the Year. My family all went with me. And then, let's see. I'm on the board of the General Patton museum, which not too many people know about.
In the desert during World War II, Patton's army trained in the desert for the North African campaign, and this is called Chiriaco Summit. It's about, oh, it's about 50 miles from Palm Springs. It's out in the middle of the desert. And the people that settled there-- because Patton's troops would stay there, and they made-- this gal has a museum. She worked very hard, but it's called General Patton museum and there's a lot of memorabilia there. People have donated, people that served with Patton during World War II.
So-- I don't know what to say-- that I have two sons, and they're both government workers. One is a air traffic controller in San Diego, and my other son is a federal agent with Homeland Security, and he currently works out of Buenos Aires, Argentina. And I love that. I can travel. I love to travel. And I have two grandchildren.
And I've just had a good life, and I'm back in Cleveland after 50 years. Always said I would never come back, but my message is never say never.
[LAUGHTER]
And I think that's about it. Any-- I don't know. I've had an interesting life, and I'm-- just God, every morning I count my blessings because I have my health yet, and my wealth, and all that is needed to survive. And I'm so impressed with this comprehensive women's program. I can see where Cleveland State is really on the move for emphasizing the contributions of women to this. And you find me, I've met so many interesting and impressive women in my travels in wherever I go. You know? OK.
SPEAKER 1: I was just wondering, what made you go to Fenn? How did you learn about Fenn? Why did you choose them?
MARGE: I had a cousin who was attending night school here. She had been a-- what was it? A woman marine. And she came to Fenn at night, and I thought, well, that was good for me because I knew I would have to work after I got that first $500 to establish my freshman year. I knew I would have to work, so I wanted to do that. And I had worked two years before I went to college, and I took business classes in high school.
Like, I even-- in those days we passed a civil service test in high school for shorthand and typing. And so, I had taken business classes. Although I was in college prep in high school, I still wanted the business background because I grew up in a business. But I had always-- and Fenn was just this-- it sounded like a nice name.
[LAUGHTER]
And it was the young-- I do want to say there were some very unusual women. There was one gal, she was the only engineering student. I still-- and I can't-- do have her name?
SPEAKER 1: I don't know. It's probably in one of the yearbooks.
MARGE: She came to the 50th reunion, and she was from Phoenix. And we started to correspond and somehow we just lost--
SPEAKER 1: You know, the yearbooks are in the archive, so I'm sure your heroine's there if she is.
MARGE: Her name was Louise Wheaton, I think.
SPEAKER 1: So she was an engineer?
MARGE: She was the only engineering girl.
SPEAKER 1: There were very few engineers.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 1: A hard road to hoe when--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
MARGE: And you know, the engineering classes were way across the street, too. They weren't in the Fenn Tower building, you had to go outside in the cold weather.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: You were probably having classes on Prospect Avenue then, too.
MARGE: I don't remember. I think most of my classes-- but the only thing I remember is the Quonset huts.
SPEAKER 1: So that must have been expanding then.
MARGE: Yeah. Just down the street. And I think they had just built the new building next door. What was the name of it? Ernst building or something? No.
SPEAKER 1: Foster? Foster?
MARGE: Foster.
SPEAKER 1: Claude Foster Hall, that became the engineering building.
MARGE: And then Mather House was the-- well, that was the auto club in those days, wasn't it? It wasn't even-- And so I remembered, just vaguely. But I am so impressed, I really am, since I've been away for 50 years. I always travel back and forth.
I come from a big Italian family, and we all kept in touch. My parents were able to travel. And California, they loved California, my dad particularly. And Southern California, I didn't live in Northern. Southern is-- there's a total difference between Southern and Northern California. And yeah, I'm just happy to be alive and to be here. What else can I say?
SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any experiences with your classes or the teachers? Anything--
MARGE: Here at Fenn?
SPEAKER 1: --in your time there?
MARGE: Let me see. I hung around with a lot of Liberal Arts kids, I remember. I went to the penitentiary once with a sociology group, the Ohio State. And-- [LAUGHS] wait, what was his name? He was a tall--
SPEAKER 1: Dr. Moore, was he in there?
MARGE: No.
SPEAKER 1: Dr. Jordan?
SPEAKER 2: Jordan.
MARGE: Yeah. He was a tall guy. And I remember Faust, he was very dramatic. I took-- what class did I take from him? I don't know. He was always talking about imperialistic-- you know, I shouldn't go on. I'm going to stop right there. He was always talking imperialistic United States, and I often wondered, was he a socialist or what?
Oh, I did belong to one group which was banned later on, the Progressive Party. I belong to that group, and I was told never put it on your resume.
[LAUGHTER]
And I was-- because I just got into it. Well, I was dating a guy that was active in that too, and that's how I got into it. But that was the third party, Wallace was running for president in 19-- that was right after I got back from Italy, so I was kind of interested in politics.
But I did belong to this third party, I don't know what they call it? The progressive part-- I don't know if I was really a member of the Progressive Party, but it was a youth group on campus. And I did go to some trips we took to Paul Robeson's house in New Jersey. Was that in New Jersey?
SPEAKER 1: I don't know where, but--
MARGE: Yeah, that was a trip. We took-- a caravan went down, buses. Once, my father got really mad at me because I was-- they sent me a telegram in the middle of the night that there was some meeting. And my dad says, I don't ever want this to be in my house again. Because I lived at home. And I was told never put that on my resume when I was applying for teaching job. And--
SPEAKER 1: I know that was about the time, or just going up to, when McCarthy was getting--
MARGE: Yeah. '50s, Bride. That was after I graduated.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
SPEAKER 2: Big, um--
SPEAKER 1: The kinda scare back then.
SPEAKER 2: All the blacklisting that went on.
MARGE: That's right. But that was one of the big political-- and then I think I went to some of the things. Well, there was, I don't know of-- there was one student that married one of the professors. Did you ever hear about that one?
SPEAKER 1: Um, I don't remember. I mean--
MARGE: Seymour. He was married, but he married this young gal, Dorothy Somebody, I can't remember. But she wrote a book, and there was a big story about her in one of the Perspectives.
SPEAKER 1: I think--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
SPEAKER 2: Oh. OK. That's the thing about--
MARGE: I'm surprised you haven't interviewed her. [LAUGHS]
SPEAKER 2: Maybe. I don't-- did she know--
SPEAKER 1: I don't know the story there. I better not email.
MARGE: But he was kind of off. He was kind of a socialist too, I think. I never had him for class, but I know that was quite a scandal at the time. And let's see, then Bloomquist, of course, was my advisor. She was very nice and very interested in the girls.
And there was one guy that taught accounting all the time, I can't remember his name. And then there was one guy that taught, he was kind of crippled. He was kind of heavy and crippled, and he taught labor law. I had to take a lot of these business law classes.
SPEAKER 2: [INAUDIBLE]
MARGE: And let's see. We had an interesting group. Most people worked, so there wasn't that real, real college atmosphere. You had to form your own little groups. And then the sorority, we had different things going on.
And I just remember one job I worked at is a paper company, that was really my first co-op job. And I really, I loved teaching. I really didn't want to be a secretary. Because when I found out I couldn't go to be a stockbroker, I knew I didn't want to go to four years of college and be a secretary for somebody. And my family was very happy that I became a teacher.
And let's see, what else can I remember? I just remember riding the streetcar to school, and cold days and all that. And then I-- trying to think, I don't have my yearbooks here. And I was very active, like I say, in student council. And I think, I got a Wing and Torch. I'm not sure, another pin, I think it's for activities.
And then I graduated in 1950. And I think we didn't have it at Severance Hall, I think it was right over at the church. And the baccalaureate and all that was right over the church. Mrs. Heisey, she was the music teacher. You remember her?
SPEAKER 2: No, she was gone--
MARGE: She was such a little pretty-- little older woman, but she was so delicate. Yeah. And Mrs. Heisey, she was the music teacher. And I can't-- and then that typing teacher, what was her name? She married Faust, but her name was something before that. And she used to love to sing Prisoner of Love, we used to type to that song.
[LAUGHTER]
You type to music in those days, and all I can remember, Prisoner of Love.
SPEAKER 1: Oh.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I think I remember [COUGHING] my mother's records.
MARGE: Well, when I start teaching typing too-- I'm going to have to get some water here.
