Women of Fenn College Oral History Project
Judith Macko Reed (BA, 1964)
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Interview conducted through Cleveland State University's Mary Joyce Green Women's Center.
Transcript:
SPEAKER 1: Do you want to--
RITA: No.
SPEAKER 1: Go ahead. Go ahead, Rita.
RITA: OK. I think so. We are talking with Judith Mako Reed, Fenn College, class of 1964, as she reflects and remembers her days at Fenn, both before her Fenn days and after. Judy, tell us a little bit about you, and are you a native Clevelander?
JUDY REED: Yes. I was born in Cleveland. I grew up in the Collinwood area. I went to school at Collinwood High, got a partial scholarship to Fenn, and was there throughout my term. It was in Education, I had an English major and a French minor. I was active in Beta Sigs for a while, I was on the co-op program, which I really liked because it helped me get through school, especially with books and tuition.
RITA: Where did you do your co-ops?
JUDY REED: Most of the time-- let's see. When I first started Fenn, I was at the telephone company Ohio Bell, and so I stayed there for two of them. I was an operator, long distance operator.
And then they said, well, you have to get into your field. So they put me in the library at University Heights, and I was up there for about two years before I went into student teaching. And I did my student teaching at A.B. Hart, the old A.B. Hart. And then I asked to be placed at Collinwood since I knew the area and the student body.
RITA: And you went-- you did a placement, one of your co-ops in common with it?
JUDY REED: Yes. And then after graduation, I was hired on at Cleveland and I went to Harry Davis, by the 106 in Superior. And I was there four years, and I taught English to seventh and eighth graders most of the time. A couple of ninth grade classes.
I asked for a transfer to Collinwood, and I was there for 10 years starting out in English, and then going into French full time as the school changed over and there were teachers who left. And at the, oh, about the last three years, I was department chairman, Foreign Language. I had two French teachers, a German teacher, and a Latin teacher.
SPEAKER 1: Latin at Collinwood then?
JUDY REED: Oh, yes. One of the last stand holds, I guess. At one point, the other French teacher and I took a class to Paris, and they enjoyed that.
SPEAKER 1: That would have been fun.
JUDY REED: Yeah. Yeah. We took them on the Metro, and then we got off early and let them find their way back to the hotel. It was only the next stop, but yeah.
RITA: Let's see, there is a little bit-- you were at Collinwood during some of the turbulent times, as I recall--
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: --in the late '60s.
JUDY REED: Yes, it was rather unique. We had kind of lock downs quite a bit, and they expected you to be out in the hall to watch. And yet, keep track of your class and what was going on. Keep them quiet. Unfortunately, I had a classroom on the front of the building, so they were kind of intrigued of everything that was going outside. Not only the rail birds in the regular term, but all of the activity that was going on outside and inside. It was a scary time for a lot of the kids.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, right.
JUDY REED: That was hard to keep your head and keep them in line, too.
RITA: Those were hard times, but that-- eventually that subsided did it?
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: --the Collinwood area?
JUDY REED: I'm not sure why, but they may have found it-- can't go anywhere else.
RITA: And so you left Collinwood, what year did you--
JUDY REED: January of '78, that's when we had our daughter. She was placed with us, our first daughter, and I just never went back to teaching after that. Shortly after that, our second daughter was placed with us, and then our third placement was our son. And I just stayed home.
I've had part time jobs through the years. I worked as a receptionist in the dentist office, worked at a department with invoices for-- I can't remember the name of the company, it's out of business now. And I worked Dairy Queen.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Yeah, all around, right?
SPEAKER 1: A stay at home mother--
JUDY REED: Right
SPEAKER 1: --with some little odd jobs along the way.
JUDY REED: And I taught PSR at St Gabriel's for a while. Sixth graders.
RITA: And your husband, he a native Clevelander?
JUDY REED: Yes, but then his family moved to Burton when he was in elementary school. And our paths crossed again later when the two people that were in my homeroom got married and lived in Richmond Heights, and they said we know somebody that you might like to meet. So on a blind date I met him. He was on the force at Richmond Heights then.
SPEAKER 1: So he was a policeman.
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: And how long-- is he in Richmond Heights, or how long did he work there?
JUDY REED: He was there 27 years.
SPEAKER 1: Twenty-seven years.
JUDY REED: We lived in Lyndhurst for about 18 of those years because he lived elsewhere before we met.
SPEAKER 1: Yes. And three children then, too.
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: Do you remember anything else about your Fenn days? We hit the co-op program, but anything about activities or professors or people there? Staying?
JUDY REED: Well, I was on the Summer/Winter program, so I wasn't really into a lot of the programs that went on through the school year. It was hard to get back. That time, I did not drive, and had to depend on transportation.
In March on 24th and Euclid, it was not fun to wait for a bus as we all remember. I remember having early classes and having to run from the Rapp Station at the square, up the street to be there on time because the loop bus didn't run that early.
SPEAKER 1: You would run up from--
JUDY REED: Run.
SPEAKER 1: --from the terminal up to 24?
JUDY REED: Right. Run up Euclid. I look back now and say, how did I do that?
SPEAKER 1: It actually ran then.
JUDY REED: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. So you knew a lot of Euclid Avenue.
JUDY REED: Yes. Up and down the street, which has changed a lot.
RITA: Yeah. You remember any of it from the early Fenn years when you're running up and down Euclid in the '60s, the early '60s actually.
JUDY REED: Remember much about-- it was busy and traffic-y. And there were a lot of kids in early classes at that time, too. Running back and forth to Stilwell, our big campus between Tower, Stilwell. And over at the engineering building, once in a while, you'd have a class, you know, Foster. I'd say, where?
SPEAKER 1: That was it, yeah. It's almost, the downtown was the campus.
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: And students-- and being a commuter school.
RITA: Mainly, yes in those days. Yes. How did you find out about Fenn? Did you know about it before you came? Or--
JUDY REED: Well, I knew where it was. I didn't know that much about it. And I just decided to-- my mother said we really couldn't afford to go out of town. It would be better to try a school in town, and if it worked out you could transfer somewhere else. But it just stayed on.
RITA: And then how did, how did-- you just knew Fenn was there or anyone ever--
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: --tell you about it?
JUDY REED: It's been there for some time before I got there. So--
RITA: So you just knew about it. And you applied, and you started on the scholarship there.
JUDY REED: Right.
RITA: Anything about professors or-- that you recall?
JUDY REED: Let's see. French, there was only one French professor. Professor Small. It got to a point where you became the only student in class. You'd meet in his office. Professor Sampson, the Education professor. I had some night classes with a few day students because the class wasn't offered during the day. Dr. Tuttle.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JUDY REED: It's kind of hard to remember who else you would see at that--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
SPEAKER 1: I took the English classes with Dr. Tuttle. Dr. Randall was the head of the department.
JUDY REED: Yes, I had a couple of classes with him.
SPEAKER 1: You know Mr. Aiselbrave and Dr. Watson and some those--
JUDY REED: Yes. Mr. Hass.
SPEAKER 1: No, yes.
RITA: Yes. Yeah.
JUDY REED: I remember one time, we had class in the tower up on the 10th floor in one of those bowling alley rooms on the side of 24th Street. And the fire bell went off, and he said somebody go check to see if this damn thing is real. Well, we had to evacuate the building going down the stairs.
RITA: Yes, on the 10th floor.
JUDY REED: Well, coming back up, everybody else is coming into the tower including the dormitory at that time so you had to take the stairs back up.
SPEAKER 1: Ten flights of stairs.
JUDY REED: Ten flights up again. So he came in with his tie over his shoulder, and he said I think that's enough this time.
RITA: Then he dismissed class?
JUDY REED: He dismissed class. Right. Right.
SPEAKER 1: Oh no. Oh no. Yeah. You're probably in shape for those ten flights from running up and down, and then the avenue.
JUDY REED: Right
SPEAKER 1: That's amazing. Yeah, Yeah. It would be a good avenue.
RITA: And in your life since then with your children, what are they doing?
JUDY REED: Let's see. My older daughter is still trying to find her way in life. That's why her daughter is with us. The second daughter has two children of her own. The youngest is just a year. The oldest is a boy, and he's eight. She works at a kennel in Chardon, A1 Bed and Breakfast. She likes that. She always wanted to go into veterinarian, so this is kind of like feeling her way. And my son is working in construction.
RITA: Oh.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, nice backgrounds.
JUDY REED: Yeah, they're kind of diverse in their interests and each other.
RITA: Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Who they are as people and that.
JUDY REED: Not really much else that goes on, daily living now, day and time.
SPEAKER 1: Day to day, yeah. You care for some of the grandchildren, and then--
JUDY REED: Right.
SPEAKER 1: Yes. And yeah, yeah. Yes.
JUDY REED: Your own self.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah.
JUDY REED: I was sorry I missed the reunion with Connie Gifford. That sounded like it was a real enjoyable time, or could have been.
RITA: It was very nice. Yeah. And we had been trying to get her given the award, Distinguished Alumni Award. And it-- that wasn't in the cards. So I think that's why they ended up doing this special award--
JUDY REED: Program.
RITA: --from the Fenn College. And looking at who--
SPEAKER 1: Now all the Distinguished Alumni Awards are Cleveland State people, of course. Look, you-- you are the lastly, the last Fenn class. And I think the class of '65, they still consider them partially Fenn and that.
JUDY REED: Yeah. Because my brother came in after that.
SPEAKER 1: OK. So he was Cleveland--
JUDY REED: He's Cleveland State, right.
SPEAKER 1: He was Cleveland State. So we're going back 43 years, yes.
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yes, we're the retirees.
JUDY REED: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah.
RITA: Anything else you can think of about Fenn or life since then?
SPEAKER 1: Any funny incidents or anything about the sorority? Because you were active in--
JUDY REED: Yeah. Other than-- yeah, we had dances in Panel Hall and activities, and homecoming with the floats. And running across the street in the ice from one building to another. We'd usually huddle in the hallway or the lobby until the boys would come. And then we'd all run together, have some windbreaker because those--
SPEAKER 1: Oh yeah, you couldn't open those doors.
JUDY REED: No. And you couldn't get across the street. And if you get a hold of a pole, and most of the time it was ice, and you just flew off somewhere.
SPEAKER 1: And there wasn't a stoplight there. So 24th, Ellie, it was fighting the traffic.
JUDY REED: Through traffic, yes.
SPEAKER 1: Always fighting the traffic, yes.
JUDY REED: No pedestrian ways then.
SPEAKER 1: No, no, no. Really a different time and place over there. Yeah. I'm telling you.
RITA: The doors, the revolving doors that you had to try to get through.
JUDY REED: They froze up most of the time, too. Yes. Or they'd bring in so much slush that once you got into the lobby, it was a real trick to get up the stairs. Forget about the elevators, they never took you where you wanted to go.
SPEAKER 1: Now I agree, it was hard there in the wintertime. Yes.
RITA: Do you think that your undergraduate years have been-- prepared you for your work and anything else in your life or anything?
JUDY REED: Oh, I'm sure it did. Even though you can't point to one particular place in time, there's always something that you draw on. And I think the education program was very well done, that you could find your way no matter where you went, even though they said, oh well, you're always get a job with Cleveland.
It wasn't always true. You still had to qualify in some way. And some of the people who didn't know Fenn kind of looked down on you because it was-- what kind of a school? Well, mainly it was known for engineering.
RITA: Well, yeah, and business. It was mainly a male school.
JUDY REED: That, too.
RITA: Mainly, yeah, there. Yeah. Yeah. But what I found out much later is, to be accepted there, you going to be in the top 10% of your graduation class from high school.
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: Yeah. I didn't know that till later. And then I guess Fenn people went on for a Masters and PhDs.
JUDY REED: Right.
RITA: So the foundation there. Do you remember any of the people? Any friends there that--
JUDY REED: I didn't have anyone that came with me from high school that went into Fenn. And since it was such a metropolitan school, everybody else sort of went in different directions afterward, too. During the school year, during co-op, and after graduation.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Yeah. Don't have many contacts there.
JUDY REED: No. And Beta Sig was also taken up by Zeta Tau, so all of that kind of dissolved too. And most of those are on the West Side, and the alum that are on the East Side, they were older women from other colleges. You never really felt a part of that life.
SPEAKER 1: Well, Beta Sig was national to begin with.
JUDY REED: Right, that's right. It was panhellenic, right.
SPEAKER 1: OK. Yeah.
JUDY REED: Then it was, I think in '65? I don't remember exactly. The closest chapter was at BW, Delta Delta, and that's where we were absorbed. Some of the fraternities too, I think, had problems along that line of being dissolved or taken up by others.
SPEAKER 1: Yes. And I can't remember what happened with some of them. But going more nationalist, dissolved. Going where there's long way in there. Yes.
RITA: Any other memories or anything since your years there?
JUDY REED: No, not-- nothing significant.
SPEAKER 1: Raising three children, very significant.
JUDY REED: Comes along, right.
SPEAKER 1: Very significant, yes. Grandchildren, yes.
RITA: [INAUDIBLE], can you think of anything nice for Judy?
SPEAKER 1: I can't-- that was one of the problems, was being in school summer and winter when you were in Education because of the co-ops being in the schools spring and fall. So it did make it harder to get involved in activities.
JUDY REED: Right.
SPEAKER 1: You missed the big stuff like homecoming and the dances.
JUDY REED: You had to make a special trip back, and if you were working anywhere you can't always get the time off to do that either. And summer, the classes were five weeks. So you were really intense in what you had to do in those five weeks.
SPEAKER 1: That's right. Two five-week sessions.
JUDY REED: And sometimes a 3/4 credit gave you more work than if you had a 5. Because they just piled it on saying, well, you've got all this time.
SPEAKER 1: It really wasn't. We were in a quarter system, so it was really, you were there and it was over with.
RITA: Yeah. Those 10 weeks were intense. They really, oh, thinking that's--
JUDY REED: You can read the next 150 pages overnight, sure.
RITA: But co-op was really a great thing.
JUDY REED: Yes.
RITA: It's too bad they don't have it more--
SPEAKER 1: They have it.
RITA: They have it, but it's not-- well, it was mandatory when we went. You had to be in a co-op, it was part of our education. It's all part of--
JUDY REED: When my brother went, he did his co-op at Picker. And so by the time he graduated, he qualified for two weeks vacation.
SPEAKER 1: Oh. What did he major in?
JUDY REED: He was in electrical engineering.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, so he--
JUDY REED: And as the years progressed, he went to a different company, Philips, which was a Dutch owned company. And they moved to Connecticut, and he came back to Illinois, and the company gave up that division. And he went back to Picker, so he's back again with all of his credits from before. So it has a way of turning around, coming back.
SPEAKER 1: The co-op program was good, and really did help us see what the work world was like.
JUDY REED: Yeah. I think it gave you more of a mature outlook too, because you're working and you're with older people, and not just into the college microcosm or whatever you want to call it. It's not all fun and games.
SPEAKER 1: That was always there, [INAUDIBLE].
JUDY REED: And many of them, too-- I wasn't able to do that, but took classes during their co-op. Mine never corresponded with my time schedule.
RITA: Judy, thank you so much for taking the time to do this with us. Appreciate it, you're remembering.
JUDY REED: Glad to.
SPEAKER 1: A lot of memories come to mind as you talk, I guess.
RITA: Funny. I can remember seeing you in the lounge.
JUDY REED: The small lounge that we had.
RITA: The ladies lounge.
JUDY REED: The second floor, right. Well. We just dumped our coats in there because we really didn't have a locker for anything other than books.
SPEAKER 1: Yeah, we had those little--
JUDY REED: Maybe you grab something to eat before your next class. Did you have Dr. Randall in History? Bill Randall?
RITA: Oh no, oh, wait a minute. I didn't. Thank goodness.
JUDY REED: Yes. He was so-- we had a problem, and I remember you going to the Dean on our behalf because you were in the class with us. He was very anti-woman.
SPEAKER 1: Was he?
JUDY REED: Oh, yes. Very chauvinist. No, if you gave him the wrong answer, he came down on you. What a dummy. But his biggest thing, I think, was coming to class in shorts in the summer, and his bony hairy legs sticking out under that table. It was-- come on. And he was supposed to be such a great person on the radio, and so knowledgeable about everything.
SPEAKER 1: I think he always studied something that way.
JUDY REED: He thought he was something, yes.
SPEAKER 1: But I can remember the praise that he would give to our Dr. Cousins over at [INAUDIBLE]. He was just a magnificent person. Yeah, he always praised him for his work in the area. And then, that guy, he still praising Dr. Cousins.
RITA: Bill Randall, he was working on his doctorate. And he was--
JUDY REED: Yes, and he let everybody know.
RITA: --i think at Hiram. He was, I mean, after he passed away, they did all this information about him. And he really did know a lot. He was, I mean, that was probably the problem. He really was extremely--
JUDY REED: He could not relate. All the things you learned in education, you looked at him and said, what are we missing?
RITA: But you know, he really worked us.
JUDY REED: Yes, he did.
RITA: Your memory-- what class did you have him for?
JUDY REED: It was World History, I'm pretty sure.
RITA: I had him for American History, and we would-- he had us going to the art museum to look at all the works of the impressionists. And I think the reel is still trying to remember that time. He had us reading original documents.
He really-- we would bring in the music of the times. It was almost-- in a way, it was almost my introduction, a little bit, to a core curriculum. Which was interesting from that perspective, but he had us running all over the place. Yeah. He worked us.
JUDY REED: Music appreciation. Sitting in the library, six or more, listening to the same music. Trying to remember for the test when you had this little snippet played for you. What was this? What movement?
RITA: Dr. Drossen? He was the music department.
JUDY REED: Yes. Yes.
RITA: Do you remember the musical he and Dr. Bard put on, Making the Grade?
JUDY REED: I don't think.
SPEAKER 1: It was done, I think it was done winter quarter.
RITA: I think it was because I was there for it. I think it was done winter, it was the winter quarter when--
SPEAKER 1: It was funny, and they corrected tests by throwing them up in the air, and--
RITA: --whichever step it landed on, it was an A, B, C. D, F.
SPEAKER 1: A number of the students played the parts in it. It was Connie, and Connie Gifford, and I forget all who all. But it was a musical, was interesting. Some fun memories of testing and--
RITA: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: --and the people.
RITA: Dr. Drossen made us write a song for elementary, teaching elementary music.
SPEAKER 1: Really?
RITA: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: So that's--
JUDY REED: Not only did you have to learn to play an instrument. You had to write your own music too.
RITA: Luckily I had some piano, so I wasn't up the creek without a paddle.
SPEAKER 1: But was everyone else using kazoos, or--
RITA: I don't know what they did.
SPEAKER 1: --any whistles or flutophones.
JUDY REED: Yeah. Recorders.
SPEAKER 1: But yeah, it is interesting because it would give a real--
RITA: You'd be learning music.
SPEAKER 1: Although it seemed difficult at the time, probably.
RITA: We had good teachers, I thought.
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: We really did, yeah. And they liked being there. A number of them were there for years, and they liked being there. The student body, we were a practical, realistic student body--
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: --back to the day.
JUDY REED: In spite of what was going on around us. I think all of us were taken aback by the Kennedy assassination, and that really put a cork on a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER 1: It was one year, and that was your senior year.
JUDY REED: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: Senior year, it was.
JUDY REED: It was like time stood still in the parking lot because everybody just stood around saying, did you hear? Can you believe? What's the latest?
SPEAKER 1: Were you on co-op?
JUDY REED: No, I was in school then.
SPEAKER 1: Oh, you were in school that fall.
JUDY REED: For some reason I was there then.
RITA: Because I know I was on co-op, I was in a grade school when they told us.
SPEAKER 1: Then that, just that whole time.
RITA: Yeah, they didn't tell the kids, though.
SPEAKER 1: No.
RITA: It's just surrealistic, that whole weekend.
JUDY REED: Time warp.
RITA: Really, your class, you saw the March on Washington. Your class was really the class that was leaving right as almost the Civil-- well, it was beginning, but really the thrust of the Civil Rights movement. The March on Washington, the summer of '63, the assassination of Gandhi.
JUDY REED: All the talk about the Bay of Pigs at that time.
RITA: Right, that happened, the Bay of Pigs.
JUDY REED: And there was a great deal of unrest or nervousness among the guys, because they never knew-- at that time, the draft was still in effect.
RITA: That's right.
JUDY REED: If they would be there or not.
SPEAKER 1: Yes. And then the Cuban Missile Crisis. I don't know if you worked well, we were all at these schools. And the Cuban Missile Crisis, it was almost as we were listening, I guess, it was in the cafeteria.
It's listening to the-- listening to the-- I think they had the radio playing or something. It was almost like someone had taken a funeral call and thrown it over the cafeteria.
JUDY REED: Isn't that strange?
SPEAKER 1: We were just listening for a word on the Cuban Missile Crisis. And you think back to this, you just sense what was going on in the world about that time.
JUDY REED: To try and focus in on what you're doing at the time.
RITA: The Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis.
SPEAKER 1: Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, March on Washington, and the death of Kennedy.
RITA: Who is your favorite instructor while you were at Fenn?
JUDY REED: Oh, wow. I don't know that I had a favorite. I think I enjoyed going to everyone's class. I didn't really say, oh no.
SPEAKER 1: Judy, thank you so much--
JUDY REED: You're welcome.
SPEAKER 1: --for speaking to us about your days at Fenn and time there.
JUDY REED: I hope I contributed something of importance. Or interest, let's say.
RITA: It's interesting because as we talk to each individual, just the few we've done, everybody has a little different angle. And I think some day, this book should become really interesting because it'll hit from every different angle. Different people see certain things.
SPEAKER 1: Yours is the first one that brought up this whole historical piece with President Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs. The first one from the '60s.
RITA: You have a call. Do you have a call? Do you want to turn it off?
