Women of Fenn College Oral History Project
Carol Ann Doskocil (BBA, 1958)
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Interview conducted through Cleveland State University's Mary Joyce Green Women's Center.
Transcript:
RITA: We're talking with Carol Doskocil, Fenn College graduate, 1959. And Carol will be reflecting and remembering her years at Fenn and after, but first of all, let's start with your years before Fenn. Are you a native Clevelander?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Well, actually, I was born in Cleveland on the East side. I lived most of my life on the East side near 131st and Dove. And until I was to go to high school, I was at Holy Family church, which was on the East side at that time. And went through eight grades there.
And then, when I was thinking I was going to Marymount, which was a heartbreaker, I had my uniforms and everything for high school, and I ended up going to-- my father telling me, well, you're not going to need those. We're going to move to Jamestown, New York.
And that's the city where Lucy used to live, or close by where Lucy used to live, Lucy Arnaz, and we did get to meet her and her husband. My father and mother knew the people that stood up for her. But anyway, getting back to me,
I went to Jamestown High in Jamestown, New York. Quite innovative, that college, or high school was, because it was almost like a college. We were allowed to pick our own classes as long as we stayed in our curriculum. And I actually was going there to be a teacher, not to be anything in business. But because of another teacher's discussion with me, she convinced me I should go into business.
So I changed my major, and that was a major problem in that high school because we had to take two sets of tests-- a Regents test and a regular test. But when you took a Regents test, and you passed all of those, you could end up going to any college you wanted to. You could name your own college at that time.
So I did that. Took the Regents test in my senior year, which is almost unheard of, but I did and passed and got two diplomas. My father was kind of angry with me because all I was getting was diplomas. I got diplomas from Holy Family. I got diploma from Saint Peter and Paul, because they went to ninth grade in New York. And then I got a diploma from the high school, too.
So he said I was getting diplomas. Well, then I put up my decision and I had a free scholarship to Syracuse University by virtue of my father's boss. His daughter could not make the grades and his boss wanted me, or the owner of the company wanted me, to take that scholarship. And I went against my father's wishes and said no.
And he said, where do you want to go? And I said I wanted to go to Fenn College. And he said, but it doesn't have a dormitory. It doesn't have this. It doesn't have that. I said, but it has my grandmother. And my grandmother was a union rep for the women's garment district.
And she had been a union rep, and she was one of those that had broke the glass ceiling, and was a mother of five children, and left without a husband who died in the influenza thing. And she did it. She did it. And so I called her on the phone and I said, Gram, daddy says I can't do this. I have a free scholarship and he's got four other children, and he doesn't want to spend the money to go to Fenn.
And she said, you work out getting the money and go to the co-op, and I'll make sure you have a place to live. So she made sure I had a place to live with her. And we lived off Dove there. She lived on Dove on the East side. And I was going to college from there.
And I had a nice fellow who stepped up, who was from Korea, he had been in the war in Korea, and he stepped up and drove me to school almost every day. Or I took the bus. One way or the other, but that's the way I got to go to Fenn College.
RITA: But what made you think about Fenn College?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: I had looked it up. I looked it up. And the thing was that I knew my father wouldn't allow me to come here if I didn't make or earn my money to go on. And I felt I could go to Syracuse University, not get the degree I wanted, because that was more liberal arts. It wasn't business.
And I didn't I didn't fit in there, Rita. I didn't fit in there. When I went to the university to check it out, I didn't fit in. I didn't have the clothes those girls had. I didn't have that background, money background, and I knew I would be the odd man out. I mean, maybe I'd make good grades, but I didn't think I'd-- So I looked up a college that I thought I could fit into.
And I also thought, I didn't know for sure what type of accounting I wanted to do. I didn't know if I wanted to be a CPA, if I wanted to be an accountant for a company, if I wanted to be a different type of business person in marketing because I loved marketing. And I loved our marketing professor at Fenn.
And so, you know, I didn't know what I wanted. I really didn't. And I thought, at least with co-op I could figure it out. I could determine what I really wanted. I could take those jobs in those particular areas and find out what I want, which I did.
So I came to Fenn and it was wonderful. I met a wonderful girlfriend of my cousin's who I knew from Garfield Heights, because I used to come here to visit with my cousin and go out with these people. And she and I became the two women in our class of 104, or five, accountants, all men. And we also became put upon, I would say. Drastically put upon.
We also pledged beta, which meant we had to put kilts on. And a couple of the professors just hated the fact that we wore kilts. They just drove us crazy because of the kilts. But we'd go to class and they'd ask the girls a question, they'd ask us the question, and they'd ask the guy and then they'd ask us again.
We answered 25 of the questions in the class, and the guys only answered one. I mean, it was really like, really chauvinistic. Talk about chauvinism. But accounting was good for me. I enjoyed it. I took it and I liked it. And I went on co-op.
And my first co-op was with Manners Big Boy. And the only course that I hated in college was the cost accounting class. I hated that professor. And well, there was one other-- dangerous Dan McGrew, which was the guy who taught economics. I could teach him economics now. But at that point it was the cost accounting, and my first co-op was with Manners.
And I went on 105th and, I can't remember, Superior, I think, was where they had their offices. And that was my first job and I went there and I was there exactly two weeks. They brought in a new fellow from out of the city, was coming in from Chicago, to teach me cost accounting for Manners. This guy came in, really nice man, had two children, and he was running back and forth between his home and Cleveland.
And then after he was here two weeks, he didn't show up for work one day. And we had to go to his apartment to see what happened and hear he had had an aneurysm and died. So did Mr Manners and Mr Mino, who were the second in charge over there, did they get a new person in to run the cost accounting department?
No. I ended up running their cost accounting department for three months, struggling with-- what was good about it is Chuck, this fellow that died, had left me a good plan. And I worked with his plan, but I was on my own for three months and it drove me nuts.
But I said I never wanted to be in cost accounting again and if another manufacturer called, I told my coordinator, please don't. Don't Invite me. They said, but you did so well and you've got so many good records. Yeah, I know, but I don't want to do it again.
So the second co-op was with an accountant. And I was going to see whether or not I wanted to be a CPA and work with just accounting. Well, I thought it was boring. I had another problem there, which I don't know whether we want to talk about or not, but there was a problem with the fact that I was a different religion than the people that were running the firm.
It was a family firm, and I was a different religion from that firm. And so there was a problem, however, they never held it against me. It was just that I was going to have to work during Christmas, and I didn't know whether or not that was supposed to be. So I just told my coordinator.
I said, I don't know if they're going to like me or keep me or do whatever. And he said, well, he said, I really think you stick with it. So I did. And then at the end, they didn't. They let me go home for Christmas. They said, oh, you can go home. Because see, I wasn't living in Cleveland. I was living in Jamestown at the time. My parents were still in Jamestown.
So they said, yeah, you can go home for Christmas, and be back on Monday. But I did. I went home on the train and came back. And that was another thing, Fenn College, there was a bunch of people that came from New York and Pennsylvania. And they were coming on that train. That train was a Fenn College train. It was really kind of fun. You didn't want to miss it anyway.
And then the other part of it was my grandmother. When she would go home or want to go home to Jamestown, she would call up my boyfriends and ask. And it got to the point where they would call her up and say, Gram, do you want to go back to Jamestown? We'll be glad to take you because you have all the cookies and all this stuff for us and you pay for the gas. And you know, I mean, it was like that.
And then after that-- and I got a bonus. And that was the important part about that accounting job. I got a bonus. But I knew then I didn't want to be in one accounting firm. I felt it was boring. I felt you were just repeating other people's work, trying to do other people's work, and that's not what I wanted to do. So that made a decision for me.
So then I went to my third job, which was, they said, I don't know if you're going to take this or not because the person that's offering you the job doesn't want you for three months. They want you for six months. And that would mean you'd have to leave some of the friends that you're used to and go with another group. And I said, well, what's it all about?
They said, well, you could learn how to use a bookkeeping machine. They wanted you to learn to use a bookkeeping machine, and this is the first one. Well I thought about it and I thought I'd like to learn how to work that bookkeeping machine because that looks like it's going to eventually be-- and it was. It was the basis for the computer, a basis for the computer, because it had all the little pieces into it that end up being in the computer. It was the actual basic of a computer.
So what I did was I signed up for it and I talked the president into letting me have it. It was a firm on Meech, 1005 Meech, and very close to my grandmother's. I could walk to work and that was another good factor. And I said to the man, I talked him into it, because he said no.
He said, even if you're going to be here six months, we'll have to send you someplace and learn how to run the machine, and then you come back here. He said, it won't be good to us. I said, well, I'll make it better for you. He said, how are you going to do that? I said, well, I'm going to tell the people from National Cash I don't want to learn at their office.
I want them to teach me here in this office. I want them to teach me here with the invoices and so on here. He said, why didn't I think of that. I said, well, I just thought about that. I thought I'd like to do it. So he said, fine. He said, you come here and you learn it here, and you teach me how to use it, and we'll work it out. And sure enough, that's what we did.
And I worked there six months. And they wanted to keep me, and I didn't want to stay. I wanted to move up because the next job included the computer, actual computer. And I said, my next co-op, I want to go where that computer is. So what I did is I ended up being with my last co-op, which ended up being where I went after I graduated, was with the trucking firm and it was Cleveland Cartage, and also Western Express was the interstate group.
And we did billings and everything. And when I went there she told me, so you're going to have to type. And you know I hated typing. I hated typing. She said, well, the computer is typing. And I said, I know, but you know. And she said, well, you're going to have to type claims. So she just sort of made me. By she, I mean Mrs. Deveny. She was the head of it. And she said, you're going to type claims from the trucking claims. I said, fine, I'll do that. So I did it. I hated it, but I did it.
And so then she said-- I'm trying to think of her name. It's not Winnie, but her name was Winifred, and they called her Winnie. And Winnie was the daughter of Mr Deveny and she was into computers. And right at 40th and Euclid was the IBM school. And so she took me by the hand and she said, we're going to go learn how to do key punching and everything.
And I was the only one in the office. And there were like 20 or 25 girls there, and there we were, we went and we went to key punch and learned how to key punch and run things. And then we were ready for the Massachusetts turnpike, because they were the first turnpike to come up. And we did all the turnpike, the dollars and pounds and everything, first on the key punch, and then to put it into the computer. And I was doing the computer way back then.
And it was a wonderful learning experience. I mean, I couldn't have had a better experience in my whole life with all that. In addition to that, at the same time, the second year I was-- the year I was a senior, it came up to the fact that we were going to-- exactly almost what's happening now with the name of the college and everything.
It came up that the University of Akron was going to be made a university, and that would leave Fenn College outside. Plus, there was also going to be Case Western University. And the state of Ohio was shelling out all this money, but we didn't know how the money was going to go. And Fenn college was actually owned, at that point, by all of us.
All of the alumni owned the college, technically. That's the way the charter read. So all of us had to agree to do whatever we were going to do with the college. And I was a senior at that time and the fellow that was running the board of directors for the college, for Fenn, called me on the phone. He was like hysterical because the girl that had been his secretary decided she was pregnant and was leaving. And I don't even know her name. I really don't.
But he called me. I know his name was Dave. That's all I can remember. Or close to that. Dave, Doug, something like that, called me on the phone and said, could you come and take minutes? Now you girls, you have to understand. I never took shorthand. I was in business, but I never took shorthand. I wasn't sure I could do the minutes, but this was a good opportunity because I was going to meet people like Mr Burmeister, who is head of the National Citibank. I was going to meet the guy from Central National Bank.
I was going to meet all of these people who were then on the board. Also, I was going to meet an individual who is related to me, shirttail relation, who I was going to have a big fight with. And his name was Joe Bartunek. I don't know if we can-- we'll have to cut this out of the tape. But anyway, he was my father's cousin and he didn't know he was related to me at the time I was doing the minutes on the board.
But anyway, I start taking minutes. Well, like I said, I couldn't take shorthand, so I took my own little shorthand that I'd run home every night. And if I would have had one of these, it would have been wonderful. But I didn't. I didn't have it till a long time after that. But anyway, so I did the best I could and I took minutes.
And things came up like the one day, and this is the one thing that I think about all the time, is we were having a meeting because we needed modular classrooms out there. And everybody was talking about the modular classroom and who we were going to give that opportunity to. If we went as a university, we would need the extra room.
Well, there were people at the table, and I won't mention names because this may go out, but one of the people at the table was insisting that the most important thing was to make sure of the colors. That the college, if we went as a college, what colors we were going to have so they wouldn't clash with Ohio State. And with that, the whole meeting, I mean this went on for hours, and the whole meeting ended by me walking out of the meeting with my book.
And because I walked out, nobody could talk. And they all were sitting around looking at what was happening. Pretty soon Mr Burmeister came out. Pretty soon the guy from Central Nashville came out. They came out in the hallway with me, and we're all standing out there doing nothing. They thought I went to the john, but I was just standing out there because I didn't think that was important.
What was important to me was what are we going to do about these modular classrooms? And the two men that were giving us a quote were sitting there, and they were waiting for us to make a decision. And these guys are talking about green and white and it's got to be forest colors, and that's why it ended up being green and white by the way, because it was a forest city and that's why.
And the why it became the Nordsmen was because one of the board of directors was from Norway. And nobody knew that. That was a big-- that was a big secret. It was a big secret, and they kept that secret for a long time. Not a lot of people know that one of the board of directors was from Norway insisted that it be called the Nordsmen, or what they ended up, the Vikings. And that's how we got to be the Vikings.
So those are the two things that happened while I was taking minutes, but I enjoyed that. And later on, the fact that I knew Mr Burmeister, and that all came into being with my job. So from that job that I had at co-op after I graduated, I had a job with Cleveland Cartage for seven years. And I was doing most of Western Express, which was the intrastate business. And I had a lot of fun there.
We even went to Chicago one day. They made me take the notary public test, and I took that. And we went to Chicago one night, late at night, and we stole about, I don't know, maybe 100 trucks. And I was notarizing the POCOs as we left the thing. It was all legal, but it was all legal, but it was-- we did it in the dead of night.
My mother didn't think that was a good idea. I was young girl going out with-- but I was going with the president and the law director from the company. But we went and picked up these trucks. It was all these truck drivers and us, and I was the only girl there, standing there stamping the POCOs as they drove the trucks out. But it was fun and I learned a lot there. I learned to be with Mr Dave Driscero. I learned what that was all about. And I learned what the trucking company business was, a little bit of black stuff you learned.
But it was an interesting. And then I ran into a problem because the treasurer-- what was happening was, and I don't know if you're acquainted with what we call the double bottom. That was two trailers. You see them running around now, one tractor and two trailers. We called them double bottoms. And we put them on the railroad track, which is right next to our company at 40th and Perkins.
And that was Transamerican. And Transamerican had the railroad track there. And we were putting those double bottoms on the railroad track. We were one of the first companies to do that, put it on the railroad track and send it. Anyway, what happened was Pennsylvania Railroad was one of the members on our board for Western Express. And Mr Devaney, a wonderful man that he was, taken up with the fact that he had a son he wanted to take over for him.
However, the son didn't want the job. And he was a good marketing agent, the son was a good marketing agent, but he wasn't president material. Let's put it that way. Anyway, make a long story short, there was a man who was on the board who was from Pennsylvania Railroad. He's really upset that we were doing the business with Transamerican, so he sent in a spy to be the financial advisor for the son.
And he actually was a spy. He was there to be a spy. He was there to run the company into the ground. And he did that in three years time. And I saw it coming. I don't want to take all the claim, but I saw it coming. I went home to my dad and I said to my dad, I was living at home at the time, I said, I have to do something here. I'm going to have to get away, out of this company, because if I don't, I'm not going to have a job.
I could see what this guy was doing, and knowing what I knew about computers and everything, and how he was fouling things up, I said, this is not going to hold. So I went, my dad told me to go to the president, which I did, but you know, they weren't going to believe a young girl right out of college. They're just not going to believe her. And I didn't have the backing to get any backing, so that was it.
So I came crying and I said to Mr-- the fellow from National Citibank, I said, you know, I really, I want to find a job. He said, oh, you don't have to worry about a job. And the guy from Central. I can't think of his name. It's terrible. But anyway, said, you don't have to worry about job. We'll get you a job. And so they got me a job with what I thought was a real sleazy firm, but it was the best firm I could have ever had a job with.
And I probably should have stayed with them. They were the least chauvinistic. And they also gave me a bonus, which was a car. I got a car as a bonus. But it was with the Grolier Corporation, which is The Book of Knowledge and that. And they were on Euclid Avenue on 40th. I had my office right there on 40th right next to the engineering building, the next building over.
And they were selling encyclopedias. But they sold to everybody. They sold to people who couldn't afford it. Our collection department was really believable. We were collecting everything. But what made it good for me was I knew computers, and I also knew the bookkeeping machine. So we had bookkeeping machines and I found out how to buy them at a lower rate. I would buy them.
One of the fellas from Nashville-- Nashville engineering. No. National Register, called me and said, he said, you don't have to buy new ones. Because the new ones were harder to get going. They would freeze them. By freezing them, they would put little blocks in and they would make them stand. And so when they shipped them they wouldn't get broken up, and, well, getting those blocks undone once they got to the place in which they were to be used, and getting new bars for them to be put in, was a difficult process.
So this guy said to me, so why do you do that, Carol? Why do you buy new ones? And I said, well, because that's what they tell me to do. They tell me to buy-- we bought new ones for all over the world, including Johannesburg, South Africa and everywhere. They were selling encyclopedias anywhere. And so I said, well, what can I do? And he said, well you can buy them from the rebuilt.
They have the ones that are bad. They sent to the rebuilt office in Dayton, and you can get them in Dayton at almost half price. So I told this to my boss, who told this to the chairman of the board, and Mr McGuire said, hey, get this girl in here. So I told them about it, and I told them what I intended to do. And so they gave me that job. I would buy the advisory things, and I saved them a lot of money. I mean, a lot of money.
So bonus time came around and as chauvinistic as that world was at that time, they said, we want to give you the same amount of bonus that we give the guys in this office, but we can't do it. We can't, so here's what we're going to do. We know you need a new car. Because I did. I was flying back and forth to Lansing, Michigan and places for them to start these computers. And so they said, what we have to do is get you a new car because we don't want to pick you up anymore at the--
I used to use Tag Airlines, and they'd have to pick me up at Burke Lakefront Airport because my car wouldn't start. I had a 1955 Buick LeSaber. So they said, no, he said, we're going to get you a new car. And I said, OK. So my boss played cards with a lot of people. He played with Tom Lally Chevrolet, and he played with the guys over-- excuse me. He played with the guys over at-- Getting a dry throat. He played with the guys over at Lion and Lamb and Sondra Burns and some of the others. Excuse me. Might have to shut it for a minute.
And he played with, as I said, cards. And so he told me he'd get me a car. I told him I wanted a Buick. He said you would have to be impossible. He said, here's what we're going to do. We're going to give you a bonus and you're going to put the money in the bank in a banking account, in a checking account, savings account. You don't touch it. And then we'll give the other half of the bonus after January 1, and that'll pay for your car in full. You won't have to pay for your car at all. Everything will be paid for.
And my dad said, oh yeah, that's going to work out. He didn't believe people any more than-- Anyway, I said, well, that's what they said. And he said, well, I don't know. I don't know if that's going to happen. I said, well, I put the money in the bank. It can't hurt. Money's in my name. So I take that money out and put it on a car. No big deal. So we went to a couple of shows, Buick shows, and my boss made the one fella that was selling Buicks an enemy because he told them he wasn't going to pay any more than so much for that Buick. And so that was it.
So end up making a long story short, Tom Lally had to give up one of his cars, his big cars, for like-- My father wanted me to take the Monte Carlo and everything. I didn't want it. I wanted the Buick. So anyway, make a long story short, Tom Lally made a switch from one of his cars and got my Buick for exactly the one I wanted, what I wanted, the color, everything I wanted. But they gave me that as a bonus. And they treated me quite well because I saved them a lot of money.
So then I was to become their assistant accountant, national accountant, and they wanted me to move to New York. And my parents got on my back. I really should have gone, but my parents felt that I was too young to move to New York on my own. I'd had a little problem because I was engaged and that didn't work out, and that's another long story, and they felt that I was mentally not really ready for that kind of a move, being on my own and everything.
So I went again to Mr, to the fella from Nashville City, and I said, what am I, Mr Burmeister, I said what am I going to do? I need another job. Because this now, what they were doing is the Cleveland office was going to leave. They were going to move to Chicago. And I would have been without a job again.
But because my parents don't want me moved to Chicago, although I was dealing-- I had an office 333 North Michigan, and then I had an office in Cicero right in Chicago. So my parents didn't want me moving. I mean, I could go there periodically, but they didn't want me to move there.
So Mr Burmeister said, well, you know, Carol, he said, I have a job for you, but, he said, I don't know if you're going to like it, he said. But he's a nice guy. And you can see what you want to do. And that was with automatic sprinkler, Mr Figi at automatic sprinkler.
But I wasn't working for him. I was working for one of his associate places. What he would do is he would buy one company, and he'd buy two alike, like Spaulding and Rawlings. He'd buy the two companies, and then he'd let one go into a hole and he'd bring the other one up. It was a real deal with him. So the one that he picked for me was this automatic process piping, which was a part of construction. That was where I got my fingers wet in construction.
And so that's where I went with that job. And I went to automatic sprinkler, and it wasn't automatic sprinklers, automatic process piping, which was a division of automatic sprinkler. And I didn't stay very long. Number one, my job to begin with was to be the bookkeeper for automatic sprinkler. But then when I got there, Figi had already put this great big office out in Broadview Heights, which was his computer center. And he put this in Broadview Heights, which was nice except whoever he put out there, and I hate to say this on tape, but they didn't know what they were doing.
And so they were calling me up because they were issuing construction. When you stop a job, you issue the final checks and you put them in the computer. And then you void out the ones that were going to go to that man because the checks were partial. Well, they were giving them both checks because they just they didn't know how to stop the secondary ones. So that was my job.
I was running back and forth trying to do the job at automatic sprinkler, automatic process, and then running to sprinkler to do their trouble. And I was running back and forth and driving my car, my brand new car, back and forth, back and forth. And I was really ticked. I was really, really ticked at him. But then came the piece de resistance. We got the financial reports and Mr Figi had gone around and asked the employees to invest in the company and kind of put your money into the company.
Well, that was fine except that those financial reports didn't say that. They didn't mean that. And people were doing it and coming to me and saying should we do this. Should we do this? And I didn't think they should. And I didn't know what I was supposed to say. But again, I made a mistake and someone overheard me and said, I think you better talk to Mr Figi.
So I went to the office, called the office, downtown Cleveland in the illuminating building, and I was called down there and said you tell them what you think. And I said, well, I think that the accountants are wrong, and I don't think you should make your people invest in something they're going to lose money on. That was the wrong thing to say, but I figured if he's going to let me go, I'll go back to Mr Burmeister and find out if I can find another job.
And so, and even before that, even before I thought I was going to get let go, I said to him, I said, you know, I said, really both he and the fellow, and I wish I could remember the president of Central Nashville because I knew him personally, and I would talk to both of them, and he said, well, he said, I think you should-- I think you should tell him what you think and see what he says.
Well, when he said that I came back, I said, I'm going to lose my job. I know I'm going to lose my job. They said, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. OK. So then I got antsy and I said, go find me another job. I know I want to get out of here. I don't like it, and I don't like the way they're working it.
I got out of there and not even a year later they had the big stock thing blow up in their face. And people lost, people that were employees lost, a lot of money on this. And I wanted to tell them, but I really couldn't tell all of them. I told some of the close ones, but that was like insider trading. You weren't supposed to tell, but if you read the financial statement.
And both the accounting firms and the stock both got it. They both got it in the neck at that time. And Mr Figi. That's when he decided to take automatic sprinkler out of here and he took it to Richmond, Virginia. But when he took it there, then he was there only two years and he moved it back to Kirkwood. I mean he was-- he's not the kind of-- not the kind of man you wanted to do business with. He was only for Mr Figi. That's where he was. And then his son, of course, is a doctor and he really didn't know the business.
RITA: Carol, this was all in the early 1960s when you first started out.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Right. All in the '60s.
RITA: And you were serving with the board of directors who were planning the move to CSU. And that started back in--
CAROL DOSKOCIL: '59.
RITA: '59.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Started in '59, yeah. And actually, we didn't pick Anarson. Anarson was our last part of the bill of picking the presidents was the last part of it. And I was glad it was on that. And they let me vote. I wasn't supposed to be a voting member, but they let me vote. They let me vote on it and say did you want Anarson or didn't you?
And then I also worked as the-- I was the co-chairman for when Anarson was made president of the party. And that was a fiasco too, because, and you might want to know this, the flowers, we had to get the flowers from the place down the street, which was Jones and something or other. They were the florist down the street. We had to get the flowers from them. And what the flowers were going to be, they were hanging baskets. Well, we were downtown Cleveland. We were at-- what was that hotel called at that time? The one down at the square, pretty much.
RITA: Hotel Cleveland?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Hotel Cleveland. They hung them in the Holland Inn. And the day of the party, the fellow that was taking me to the dance had to go with them to get the flowers down and put them in the right place. That was one thing. The other funny thing was getting an entertainer. And Chuck Day, who was with the TV stations, the radio stations, he was going to help get the entertainer for this big affair.
And so I had this office at that time at Grolier, and I was getting these phone calls and my secretary was just having a hysterical time because John Davidson was on the phone. John Davidson's on the phone, Carol. He wants to talk to you. OK. OK. So I go on the phone, she said what does he want? What does he want? A date? What does he want? No, he's telling me he can't be the person that Chuck Day had sounded.
Then Bob Hope's secretary called. And first she called Louis Seltzer. Louis Seltzer wasn't in, so then she calls me and she said, well, Louis Seltzer wanted us to bring Bob Hope for this thing, but Bob Hope already had been in Cleveland so he can't come. But he wants to wish you well. We'll send up thing blah blah blah, but we'll try and help you get another person.
So then, right next door at the hotel next door was Buddy. I can't think of his last name, Buddy whatever. Anyway, that entertainer was kind of had foul language and all kinds of stuff. And the board got upset when Chuck Day suggested that because he was scheduled to be there during this time.
Make a long story short, we ended up, I mean, we had all people calling. I mean, I had so many people calling. Cher. I mean, it was just trying to find somebody. Anyways, you're trying to find people from Cleveland. Jimmie Allen. I mean, they're just trying to find everybody. Well, it ended up being a minister. He ended up being entertainment. And he wasn't that funny, I don't think. But it was a friend of Chuck Day's and he finally took the job. But it was an unknown college at that time.
RITA: What? '64 when they--
CAROL DOSKOCIL: '64. Right.
RITA: We didn't hear about it as students. We didn't hear about it till 1963. That's when--
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Well, you know the reason why. Because there was--
RITA: Anderson and G Brooks let us know about it. Yeah.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Right. Well, the reason they didn't want anyone to know about it is the fact that they didn't know what they were going to do about the certificates. And I don't know what they're going to do about them now if they decide to do what they're going to do now. The biggest part of it was that the Fenn College students wanted a CSU certificate, a graduation certificate. And they wanted that.
And a lot of them were high up in town, Thompson Rameau and all of these big, big guys. And they listed a lot of pressure because they were giving a lot of money to the college, both to Cleveland State and to-- Plus, we had this problem with this university business and the fact that they had talked about Akron University and that they didn't know if Cleveland was actually going to end up being a University.
It was the engineering school that really got behind this and said it is a university. We're a better engineering University than Akron, so therefore, you better make us a university. It was really the engineering school that really put the thing to them, and Anarson. Anarson, when he came, he really said he wanted to make sure that this would end up being a university.
That's one of his statements in his letter to us that he wanted the job. And he worked very hard. He and Schwartz, I think, worked very hard. I wasn't too pleased with the girl that had it, the woman that was the president for a while. Carole was her name? First name Carole? Or am I thinking the one from Akron?
RITA: Oh, I can't remember what-- Yeah, she was right between, right before Schwartz. Yeah.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Yeah, and I wasn't really pleased with what she did. But I think Schwartz is on the right track, and he's actually-- the reason to move this statement to University of Cleveland is to get the money, because it's a way they split the money downtown Columbus and the way they split the money for the colleges. Yeah, that's why it's the money situation, because even now--
RITA: You've been with them through this whole process?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Yeah, I have. And, of course, being in construction, I know a lot about all the construction that took. See, then like I said with Mr Burmeister, after I left automatic sprinkling, I said, I like construction. I think it's fun. And he said, well, then let's do this. He said you're going to go backwards. And I said, backwards? And he said, yes.
He said, how would you like to have an office in a brand new building, downtown Cleveland, but you're going to go backwards in accounting? I said, what are you talking about? He said, well, they don't have a computer and they don't do bookkeeping. They do the old-fashioned bookkeeping. Bookkeeping, you know. He said, they don't have anybody to run their office, but I think if I introduce you to this man, I think he will like you and I think he'll want you to be part of his show. And I said, OK.
Now this is the Cleveland-- Actually, it was called Building Trades Employers Association at the time. Actually, they have the first apartment, or it isn't an apartment, penthouse building up on top of the Midland building. There's a penthouse, a glass penthouse up there. And it's a beautiful place. It really is, but nobody's in it right now but the pigeons up there. There's nobody up there. People had used it from Midland company for a while, I guess.
But that's not where we were going. We were going to the Chesterfield apartment building. And Roediger was building that building, Mr Roediger the senior, was building that building with Mr Galvin, who owned the Chesterfield. And so they put us in the section that overlooked the patio, the big patio, and that was our offices. Beautiful offices. And we had 28 people employees, and I was their accountant.
And I was really very, very fortunate to be there then. Then we grew and we had to take on what was called the industry service program, which helped with safety in construction and so on. That's a national type thing, but actually it was regionalized and we were the ones having it in Cleveland. And that was another set of books. So I had two sets of books, but I was doing it by hand, not doing it by computer. And I said, this has got to stop.
And so I talked and finally, after about five or six years, I talked him into a computer. It took me a while, but I talked him into a computer and then we blew up. And now we've got the biggest, the computer that they have right now. I was with them 31 years as their CFO.
And we had, I mean, I saw a lot of buildings built, things that happened. Say for instance, your BP building, which they had to-- the architect had to adjust by one eighth of an inch because the plans were incorrect. I mean, it was all kinds of things happened.
The people that were working on the National City building, they shoved two guys out with the rubbish and out the window and broke their arms and legs. I mean, it was an accident, but you know. But there were a lot of fun things that-- not fun things, but things that happened in the industry. And it makes me angry. It really makes me angry because Cleveland, actually, the whole city of Cleveland was built by Cleveland construction.
And we have unions, and I know some people say, well, they have this and that. And I'm, OK. That may be true, but they're not. They're actually teach the student how to work with the union, how to work with his hands, and that gives a person who can't make it through the college.
And Tri-C was doing-- I worked with them, with Tri-C and the cement mason apprentices, because Tri-C was giving them credits for taking their apprenticeship and then going there at night to get a secondary degree. But Cleveland State never did that, and I think they should look into that.
I think there's a lot of areas where they can actually show these apprentices that they could finish college degrees and get college degrees. They can't right away because some of them can't even add. They find they don't pass the apprenticeship test to even know how many inches are on the ruler and stuff like that.
So I worked as CFO with this company and I ended up being in Women in Construction, which is an organization for women who had started in Dallas, Texas. And it started by a bunch of women who were working for their husbands. And it's grown into an international association. We have chapters in South Africa and in Denmark and all over.
RITA: Women in Construction.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Yes. And I helped the one that we started in Toronto. We have Women in Construction everywhere. So it's a little different than Hard Hatted Women, but now we have Hard Hatted Women who have joined our organization. And the reason-- the difference was-- and they went on TV once, and I got all upset about it, but it was not, I suppose.
I helped with the city of Cleveland to get that, to get Women in Construction, and it actually ended up being Hard Hatted Women. And they were people that were women that worked on the cables and telephone, and also people that worked at Republic Steel with hard hats. But they definitely weren't construction. And they wouldn't make the differential. They'd go on TV and say, well, we're construction worker. No, you're not. But there were many facets of construction.
And then I also worked on the women's thing, which I know is not being done correctly, now even. Women's center to a woman owner, woman business owner. The city of Cleveland made certain rules under Mr White and I had to watch what I said, because I was trying to do that. And that is the Cudell clock tower. And it's on 98th and Detroit. And it's given to the first architect of the city of Cleveland.
It's Cudell, and Cudell was a family man and he didn't have any children. And that's why you have the Cudell rec center and the Cudell thing. Now that tower was in terrible repair when I first started. And I said, when I die they can throw my ashes around the tower, because I worked my buns off. I got people from Cleveland State to get the pigeons out of there. We, one day, spent time just getting rid of the pigeon and pigeon shit. Maybe you shouldn't say that on TV.
But anyway, we did a lot of stuff like that. And I put in $185,000 worth of donated services. And I had a big check coming from BP, which never came to me because of a tax problem. Because BP could only give it to a 501(c)(3) and NAWIC was a 501(c)(6). So we ended up having to turn that money over to Joe Cimperman, and that's where I'll stop the discussion.
Anyway, that tower never got finished in my time. It's being worked on again. I don't know who's working on it. I had a Carolina person, I had people, I still had people call me periodically and say, what are we doing with the tower. Well, nothing. But now I don't know if it's even-- I even had to have somebody detective on it so that the kids wouldn't put more graffiti on it.
And I got from the thing, I had trouble with the Ohio Preservation Center because they didn't want us to clean the tower. It had all kinds of graffiti, and they didn't want us to clean the tower. And Mayor White wanted us to clean the tower, so he managed to get some money from the city of Cleveland for us to clean the tower.
So then I had to clean the tower when nobody was looking. That was one of my jobs in the city of Cleveland. I got a nice letter from Mr Vinovich and I also got on the Cleveland, the women's group, the Cleveland most important women in Cleveland or whatever you want to call it.
Now I never got married. I did have a significant other. He had a business of his own. And I was traveling a lot for NAWIC. I was doing a lot of things like establishing the chapters in different areas. And so, we had a relationship that lasted 31 years. Very good relationship. He died 10 years ago and I still get things from him.
And I won't put this on tape, but I'll tell you about it later. I still get-- people think I'm crazy if I tell you that. But anyway, it's really a interesting relationship. We had a long relationship. I have no children, but my children were in college.
And I've used my influence as much as I can with these different firms that want to donate for college in Cleveland. And I've talked to a number of your college coordinators over there. And NAWIC has given money periodically. Not a lot of money. They didn't have a lot of money to begin with. We used to give $500 and $200, but we were never recognized ever because it was such a low amount of money, and I understand that.
But that was in the days when they weren't getting very much money anyway. And now there are some that have more money and can give more money, but they have different things going on that impede them. In our case, it's we got to watch that. Although, I think the last time we did give to a girl from Akron. I'm not sure. She was engineering, and I think we gave it to her, but I'm not sure.
But Akron chapter has to OK that. Because we do have a chapter in Akron. We have a chapter in Dayton. We have a chapter in Cincinnati. We have a chapter in Toledo. We have a chapter in-- there's a new one coming in Ohio, and I can't remember where they said. There's a brand new chapter going to be established in Ohio, but I've been with NAWIC 40 years.
And I've been-- I was with CEA 31 years. And our boss has promoted us to do that. Because if you went to a NAWIC meeting, like, for instance, there was a recent thing that happened here in Parma Heights. And had I been at the meeting, that probably wouldn't happened. But I knew about the credit. I knew about what was going on and the day that it happened, the day that it happened-- See, I also worked for Mayor Cassidy. When Mayor Cassidy was elected, I had a couple of parties here for Mayor Cassidy when we had a party room.
But I knew what was happening over there because of my affiliation with NAWIC. NAWIC women talk. They wouldn't talk, too. Because I was one of the few people that was allowed to go to the men's golf outing, but they only let me go because, I broke the glass ceiling there, but the only reason they let me go is because I had the highest thing, and I would take the prize for being the worst golfer. So they didn't mind that I went.
RITA: And this was-- when was this going on, that you were still-- that women still couldn't be part of that golfing group?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: They weren't allowed, no. But they let me go because I put my foot down.
RITA: So is this still current or--
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Oh, no. No, no, no. Now they have owners. Now they have women business owners, so they have, yeah, they have women business owners that now participate in the golf, but at that time--
RITA: When was this about?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Oh, in the '70s. Yeah, the latter part of the '70s, early part of the '80s. I put my foot down. I said, I'm entitled to go. I'm the CFO here, and I know everybody's money. And that made a difference. And of course another thing that they said, the men would say, is, well, we don't mind Carol going because she never tells anybody if we say something about somebody. She never tells. You have to know to keep your mouth shut.
It was a very, very classy area. You had to dress the part, work the part, and play the part. And my boyfriend had taught me. He bought me clubs years ago to use, and so I had clubs. And then as I started to go back into it again, I stopped for a while because of something that happened, and then I started again to play and they said, well, you know she's going to be the worst golfer out here, so why not? Let her go. And that's what we did.
But there's a lot of stuff that you know when you're in construction. There's a lot of stuff that you know, and even now with all of the stuff that's going on in the Dimora area and stuff like that, the media has bent some of the information, you know, incorrectly. They bend it to the way they feel. I don't say it's entirely wrong. I don't say it's entirely right. But it's bent.
And we're never given, as far as I'm concerned, construction's never given the appreciation that's due. Because no building in Cleveland could have been built had it not been for men that worked here and worked in the trades and built those buildings. But they never get-- they never get the accolades. They always get, let's see who's doing dirt to somebody. And that's where they lie. And I knew that that was going to happen, too. I knew when I found out that one of those companies didn't get a bid that it was supposed to get. And I knew this was going to come down on a few people, and I was right about that, too.
But this business of Parma Heights, we have a lot of stores that are empty right now. We've got a lot of things. And they just made Bob Ridelli, he's going to be in charge of development. Well, OK Bob, let's get on that horse and get going because it's tax money we're not going to get. So yeah, we've got to work at it.
In fact, I wrote to Donald Trump once. And I got a part of a letter that he was going to look into it. Because I told him that he should build a building here in Cleveland. I think he should build a building, but he does like to build non-union, and he wouldn't get away with non-union here in Cleveland. He'd have to work with the system. But he said it is interesting, this area would be interesting for something nice to be built here. But he never came out. Maybe yeah, he thinks on it.
But these are things that I've enjoyed. I've enjoyed talking for NAWIC. NAWIC is a great group. The girls are very good. They've done a lot for Habitat for Humanity. They've built two homes already for Habitat for Humanity on their own.
We helped out at what is a school now, but it used to be-- What the heck was the name of that before? It was a lodge at one time on Euclid Avenue. Oh, darn. It's at 30th and Euclid. It's a school right now. They almost went out of business. But we did the mirror room in that lodge, in that thing, the Women in Construction rebuilt that whole mirror room for them and in that building.
And we've done a lot of things for the city as a group, the girls have. I haven't worked on Habitat for Humanity because both times, was lucky for me, my arm was in a cast. They said that's why I got out of it, but no, it's really the younger girls can do that now. They're out there.
And we also do for Applewood. We provide Applewood with a Christmas party every year. And that's where the disabled children and displaced children go. And so we do that every year for Women in Construction. We've done a lot of things. We've worked on the Cudell clock tower. And that's another long story about how I got into that. But we've done a lot of things. I sold chocolate candy bars that looked like the Cudell tower.
It was wonderful, but it's something that I'll never regret. I'll never regret my college education. I'll never regret working on co-op and learning what I didn't like about accounting. I'll never regret any of the jobs I had. I'll never regret the associations I had, the people I met with, the people I talked to, the people at the banks.
All the banks, you knew your bankers. I had money at one time in almost every bank in the city. Because being a CFO, I was in charge of $2 million and I had money in every bank. We couldn't put it into stock. We had to put it into CDs and we invested in banks. And it was important. And the bosses never told me where to go.
I mean, I was under three different bosses. Mr Hull was my first manager. Mr Prusa, Norm Prusa was a second manager for, it became at that time, we were BTEA, Building Trades Employers, and we ended up being Construction Employers Association during the time of Norm Prusa. And then we also had the construction industry service program, which is the big service area for safety on the construction.
We changed the construction safety in this area almost 100-fold. We got all kinds of awards from the Labor Department, everybody, because they didn't have as many accidents because of our training. And not necessarily me, but there was a gentleman in our office by the name of Jim Brown, who was an excellent safety man and he still is. He's still out there when he can be. He's retired too, and he's still out there working and trying. He has helped so many of the contractors in so many different ways in helping our construction injuries.
So I mean, we had a lot to do. I mean, even the drug program that we put in. We put in a drug program for drugging so that they could go out to the job site and test the people on the job site. And we have the names of all the people. We have it in a 400, AS/400, IBM's biggest computer.
And we have all the names of all the union people that work. We have all their what they have taken in different seminars. And so we can say we're protecting the contractors. And the contractors realize it's a big thing. It really is. And it was a good thing.
And most of these women work with the associations. If they don't work in the associations, now they work with a Hard Hatted Woman who has their Hard Hatted Association. But those are mostly were apprentices. We have apprentices, too. We had a lot of apprentices.
In fact, one, two, or three of them became project managers. One of them was a project manager for that big mail room that was downtown Cleveland. And now I forget what building it is now. And also, one of the girls was out at the airport that's a Sheraton. She was project manager of the Sheraton out there. And she was a project manager. So we have had women project managers. We've had women who run the companies. Own their own companies. Fencing companies. All different kinds of companies. And it's really grown. And it's not necessarily-- it's an education.
In fact, when we first started, one of the first things we said at meetings is, well, when we have this meeting we don't want to learn about what kind of nail polish we're going to put on, or what kind of hairdo we have. We want to know how to build a building. And at our last meeting, we had our meeting and then the girls left after the meeting. They went to a seminar to learn how to put a faucet in, how to do some painting, use different paints and so on and so forth. That was their meeting. So they do a lot to incorporate construction in with what we're doing. What else have we got? I could go on forever. There's so many things.
RITA: Your sense of enjoyment in your work, but also giving to Fenn, Cleveland State, and your community.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Right. Well, I try.
RITA: And to women.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: And to women. Right. Right. And to women. I have had a lot of fun. I've never regretted any of the fun I've had. I've traveled a lot. I've been to South America. I've been to a lot of states because of Women in Construction.
I also was in the Construction Financial Management Association. I was president of that group. I was president of Women in Construction in the '80s. I was, there's another group I belong to, the, oh, and I can't think. Cost, cost, cost, cost committee, American Association of costing, construction costing. That was another group I belong to.
And so I was in a lot of different associations. I traveled. I worked. I mean, I had associations. I had a lot of fun and it was worth it.
RITA: Yes. Yes, it was.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: And my college, actually. My father always said the only reason I was going to Fenn, his thought, was the only reason I was going to Fenn was there were so many men there. That wasn't true. Because he thought I would get married. And my girlfriend, who was in class with me, just celebrated her 50th anniversary. And she she's married. She's got, I'm kind of jealous, she has a daughter and she has three grandchildren. She had a CPA. She got her CPA.
RITA: Who is that?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Marilyn Hepler. And now Drellishak. Marilyn Hepler Drellishak. I wish I had that--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Here. Well, I don't know. She might. Is she in here? I don't know? I don't know if she was. I know I only had one picture in here. I know there was only one picture of me in here, I think. And they didn't put any names here.
RITA: Do you want to add anything or do we want to turn it off.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: What is it? How much time do we have? Were there any more questions?
RITA: Can you think of something though that-- I had something in mind, and it just--
CAROL DOSKOCIL: How about the sorority? We had sorority, you know, beta. And, of course, they went to alpha zeta. They changed to alpha zeta, and that kind of left our group sort of in oblivion. The only one that I see occasionally is Pat Sealy. And she's still Pat Sealy. She lives here in Parma Heights. There's a Yankovic. Rosalyn Yankovic used to live very close by. She now lives in Florida, I understand. What the heck is her name? Rau, Nancy Rau.
RITA: OK, wait a minute. OK.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: The other thing that happened, that I found that I really appreciated, was when I got to go back to the urban, what they call it, urban college, the room for the students, and I taught there. My ability to teach. Because I taught construction accounting for 15 years. And so I went-- our offices-- in fact, we sold our building. Our building was the building that's on the corner of 18th and, was on the corner of 18th and Euclid. And that was a builder's exchange at one time. And we sold that to the college. There was a reason we sold it, and I'm not going on tape with that reason. But anyway, we owned that building. And that's when we moved from there to 981 Keynote, which is in Brooklyn Heights. I had to move 18 outfits out of that building into Brooklyn Heights. That was quite, all those tractor trailers leaving. But anyway, my biggest thing was, and actually, the day that I really felt great was the day that I taught at the urban, in the urban school. I got a class for construction accounting and I was teaching in that building. And of course, I felt bad when they knocked it down recently. Yeah, they knocked down that building, the metal building. The one where all the students--
RITA: Oh, sure. Yeah.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: That's where I taught. And the funny part about it-- the funny part about it was and one day when I was first to teach there-- Oh, there were two funny parts. But the one day, the first time I went to teach there, I got there and we didn't have a room set up for us. We couldn't be in that urban building for the class.
So they said to me, do you mind, Miss Doskocil, if you have, you hold your class in the library? It's a regular classroom. You have a blackboard and everything. I said, yeah, that's OK, never thinking that we'd have to go through security to go to the library. So we go through security and one of my contractors had a gun in his portfolio. They wouldn't let us in. They said, oh no, no you can't.
Then I had a class during Thanksgiving. It was the week of Thanksgiving and I was teaching on a Wednesday, and I had a class. Well, the whole school was already down for the holiday. We got locked in. We couldn't get out. We were going up and down in this elevator. And we went to the parking garage and we forced our way out of the parking garage. We're yelling to people on the street, go get somebody. Go get a policeman. We can't get out of the building.
RITA: Did you finally get rescued?
CAROL DOSKOCIL: Yeah, we finally got out of there. But I had a student who brought her son, who was like four or five years old, and he was crying, mommy, are we ever going to get out? And then, also, a man who had claustrophobia in the elevator, which was really fun.
But my biggest thing was when I got to actually teach at Cleveland State. And of course, I didn't get paid by Cleveland State. My company paid me because I was being paid for construction accounting, but at Tri-C.
I've taught at Parma. I taught at Tri-C. And I taught at Cleveland State for construction accounting. I've taught at all three. Yeah. But it was really-- it was really fun. That was something I wanted to remember when you said that about the school. Different classes and stuff. But I'm sure that-- But Dorothy Pulaski, I don't--
RITA: Yeah, let's say thank you, Carol.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: OK.
RITA: Carol, thank you very much for your time and your memories of your years at Fenn, and your work for Fenn, Cleveland State, the community, all that you've done. Thank you. Thank you.
CAROL DOSKOCIL: I have enjoyed it.
