Women of Fenn College Oral History Project
Alma Sutter Rhine (BA 1952)
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Interview conducted through Cleveland State University's Mary Joyce Green Women's Center.
Transcript:
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] We are talking with Alma Sutter Rhine, Fenn College, Class of 1952. And Alma will be telling us a little bit about her years here at Fenn, and her life, both before and after Fenn.
ALMA RHINE: All right. Maybe starting with my life before Fenn, I was a graduate of Brush High School in the South Euclid Lyndhurst school district. I felt I got a very good education there.
My brother and sister both came to Fenn, my brother graduated in the class of '40. Probably that influenced me somewhat to come to Fenn. However, being able to co-op to pay my way through had a great deal to do with it too, because we could go to school a quarter, and then work a quarter to earn enough money to go back to school a quarter, which is what I think a lot of us did.
I enjoyed my time here at Fenn. I had a good time at Fenn. I belonged to a sorority, the Gamma Sigma, and that really was the social life for us at Fenn. Classes were-- I found them very difficult. But we were competing with returning veterans, and those returning veterans weren't fooling around or joining fraternities or anything. They were here to get an education, and they, I think, really brought the scholastic level up because they worked hard, they had families, they were wanting to get in and get out.
SPEAKER 1: What was your major when you were here at Fenn?
ALMA RHINE: My major was Sociology. And I enjoyed my sociology classes, but in the back of my mind I still wanted to be a teacher. Miller Jordan was my advisor, and I liked him very much. And he treated his students like good friends, and invited us to his home and we met his wife. And incidentally, his daughter was a friend of my sister's here at Fenn. His daughter, Esther. So that was kind of a coincidence too.
SPEAKER 1: And do you remember any of your other professors or classes?
ALMA RHINE: Yes, I remember some. It's been a long time, but I do remember some. I remember George Simon. He was a short man, and he taught speech, and had a wonderful philosophy of life. He always said, good morning, wonderful morning. And it could be blizzarding like crazy outside, and you'd look out, and-- well, it's a wonderful morning. He said every morning that you wake up is a wonderful morning.
And I had his class first thing in the morning, and he always sent over for donuts. So we could kind of wake up to donuts and some beverage. And I'm not sure what I learn about public speaking, probably a lot, but I learned about living. I learned about good philosophy of life.
I had one instructor as a freshman who said, "It's my duty as an instructor of freshman to flunk out as many freshmen as I can, as fast as I can." Which really scared me. Oh, my gosh. You're sitting there as a new freshman, maybe rather immature, and someone tells you that and you thought, oh, here I go. [LAUGHS]
I had to take chemistry. I remember that. And I had a very kind-- I can't remember his name, but a very kind man who could see how nervous these new freshmen were. And very kind and understanding. Oh, I'm trying to remember.
SPEAKER 1: Was there a Dean of Women here when you were here?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. I think it was Pauline Bloomquist.
SPEAKER 1: She was Dean of Women at the time.
ALMA RHINE: I'm not positive, but I think she was. And she gave-- she taught typing. When we entered, we had to take a typing test. And we had to take typing for no credit until we could type 42 words a minute with seven errors or less, and she gave the test. And there were an awful lot of women who did not pass that test.
And a friend of mine said, oh, come up with me. I have to take the test. And I said, I already took it. I already failed it. Well, come with me. And Miss Bloomquist said, oh well, take the test. I said I already failed it. She said, take it again.
So I took it again. I must have been having a wonderful day because I took the test and I typed 42 words a minute with one error. Me, I just really had a good day that day. And she said, you passed because I have too many people in here to find a chair for you. So she passed me on 42 words.
I didn't see much of the business people after that because I was in Arts and Science. I don't remember.
SPEAKER 1: Were there many women in your classes at that time?
ALMA RHINE: No. As a matter of fact, the classes were all very small, especially my sociology classes were quite small. There might be 10 people in a class, and so you got to know those 10 people well and I think that's why I got to know Professor Jordan so well, because they were small classes. But in a class like that you might be the only woman. Even though it was small, I guess the men outnumbered the women, 10 to 1. And I probably had some classes where I was the only woman.
SPEAKER 2: Even though you were Associate of Arts and Sciences.
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes. But I got to know some of those people quite well. I met them afterwards, two of the men that had been in my sociology class went to Kent too to get a teaching certificate and so I met them again at Kent. And you got to know people better. You weren't just a number. You were a real person.
I do remember the field trips. I took Rural Sociology, and Professor Jordan took us on a field trip to Malabar Farms. And this was when Louis Bromfield was still living, and he took us on a tour of his farm. But I rode in his car, Professor Jordan's car, and I learned to identify cows.
I still know which are Holsteins and which are Angus. And I learned a lot just on that field trip about animals, because he was a farm boy himself. And so as we drove along, he said, now there are some Holsteins-- and so, that was fun.
SPEAKER 1: Where did you do your co-ops? You had to go do co-op, where did you do it?
ALMA RHINE: When you are a student of sociology, there are a lot of jobs available. They're all volunteer, and I think it's probably still that way. A lot of volunteer jobs, and I could not afford to take a volunteer job. So I had worked at Fannie Farmer candy shops when I was in high school. And I was still working when I entered college, but I had transferred to the office which was on 19th Street just off Euclid, and so I could walk down there to go to work.
And so I worked there part-time during school, and then I did my co-op there. And while we all agreed that, really, it was not an extension of sociology, you have to take what you can get sometimes. But it was a good job. It was a good job. I enjoyed working there, I had a lot of fun working there. And, of course, all the candy I could eat.
[LAUGHTER]
And I worked there every co-op. They were very kind, and let me work part-time during school. And then during co-op, I could work there.
SPEAKER 2: And that helped with tuition?
ALMA RHINE: Oh, you bet. You bet. I made-- now you have to figure, this is back in late '40s. I made $28 and some cents a week. And I banked $25, I spent $3 on bus tickets, and squandered the change.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: Living high.
ALMA RHINE: Oh, Yes. But the money I made when working part-time while I was in school, I could-- I didn't have to save all of that as long as I had a job when I go up.
SPEAKER 1: Where you living at home?
ALMA RHINE: I was living at home. And I took this-- now, this really dates me too. I took the streetcar. I took a bus from my home to Noble Road, and then I got the streetcar. And we took the streetcar down, and the streetcar stopped right in front of Fenn Tower. And then when going home, I was able to just get on the streetcar in front of Fenn Tower and go home. So it was an easy, easy commute, and not much transferring.
SPEAKER 2: Yes, and not bad though.
ALMA RHINE: And now, I feel like, I rode the streetcar, I know a lot about history. And my kids ask about the streetcar every now and then. Well, where did the streetcar run, and that sort of thing. So I'm history.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: And you belonged to Gamma Nu Sigma Sorority. What was the sorority life like here at Fenn in the late '40s, early '50s?
ALMA RHINE: Well, we didn't have a sorority house. We all lived at home except for a few that lived in the dorm at 36th and Euclid. And the dorm was a mansion--
SPEAKER 1: Oh.
ALMA RHINE: --and several girls lived in the dorm. And every now and then, they would have a sleepover or something and we would all go to the dorm. So belonging to the sorority, you got to know a group of people. And you got to know them as friends, not just as casual classmates. And I think-- I think that was one of the important parts of being in a sorority, was making friends when otherwise you were just a lonesome person in school.
SPEAKER 1: And then especially in a school that was male dominated--
ALMA RHINE: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: --to have that--
ALMA RHINE: Yes.
SPEAKER 1: --companionship.
ALMA RHINE: But I'll digress to the dorm. The dorm was-- although I didn't live there, I went a few times. And it was a mansion, and the people who lived in the mansion had a daughter-- this is the story I heard-- had a daughter who was having a coming out party, and they couldn't find a place to have her coming out party. So they raised the roof of their home and put in a third floor ballroom.
And the ballroom was just surrounded by mirrors, and I was a cheerleader. And as a cheerleader, we could go up there and practice and watch ourselves in the mirror. What we're doing right. What we're doing wrong. So that was very helpful for that reason.
But it was a beautiful, beautiful mansion. And the girls that lived there just-- I think they really liked it.
SPEAKER 1: Was it Bliss Hall? Was that-- was it Bliss Hall or--
ALMA RHINE: I don't recall that name.
SPEAKER 1: OK. Might have been another one [INAUDIBLE].
ALMA RHINE: But there was the Masonic temple, and then this mansion, and then the arena. Do you remember the arena?
SPEAKER 1: Oh, yes.
ALMA RHINE: And so it was between, I think, between the Masonic Hall and the arena.
SPEAKER 2: The arena, where it was--
ALMA RHINE: And it was just kind of tucked in there and hadn't gotten torn down yet. But it did get torn down shortly after we left school.
SPEAKER 1: You mentioned you were a cheerleader. What kind of cheer-- what sports were you doing cheerleading for at Fenn.
ALMA RHINE: Basketball.
SPEAKER 1: Basketball.
ALMA RHINE: Basketball was really, as far as I know, the only competitive sport. And so we cheered for basketball. And certainly different from the way they cheer now.
SPEAKER 2: [LAUGHS] Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: Was it the Fenn Foxes when they travel at that time?
ALMA RHINE: The Fenn Foxes.
SPEAKER 1: Yes. Did they travel?
ALMA RHINE: They did travel. We didn't get to travel with them very often. Once in a while, we would go along, but not too often. But they would travel to Pennsylvania to-- just across the border, I can't think of the name of the colleges now.
SPEAKER 1: Slippery Rock?
ALMA RHINE: Slippery Rock.
SPEAKER 2: Slippery--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
ALMA RHINE: --Rock. And we had a pretty fair basketball team as I recall, and we had fun cheering for them.
SPEAKER 1: Yes.
ALMA RHINE: There was an instructor in PE, Jody Graham? who helped us.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, she was here--
ALMA RHINE: It was a young man. And he helped us.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, he helped maintain--
ALMA RHINE: He helped us get the things right, the moves right. But we didn't stand and stamp our feet and clap our hands--
[LAUGHTER]
--like they do now.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER 1: Well, did you have a woman instructor for any of your Phys Ed classes?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes. We had-- oh, I can see her face, and we called her Teach.
SPEAKER 1: Miss Pease?
ALMA RHINE: Pease. Jane Pease.
SPEAKER 1: Pease, yes.
ALMA RHINE: And I really enjoyed her a lot. I think we all really liked her. And one quarter, we did bowling for-- did you do bowling?
SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
ALMA RHINE: And we went down to Chester to a bowling alley. And I started out kind of bad, and as the quarter went on, I got worse. And she said, Alma, you're supposed to be getting better, not worse. Thank goodness it was pass/fail.
SPEAKER 1: You had to show up.
ALMA RHINE: Right, right. I really was not an athlete.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 2: Did you have to learn to swim too, in the-- was it a fifth floor pool?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes. We were just talking about that today, that how strange that the pool was on the fifth floor. But we swam there.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah. They let us swim.
ALMA RHINE: Yeah.
SPEAKER 1: And you were saying "we", you met your husband here at Fenn, I think that you said that?
ALMA RHINE: Yeah, I did. I did. He did not finish here. But they had the freshman camp, and I was one of the ones that was chosen to go to freshman camp as a counselor, as an upperclassman. And I met him at freshman camp. So he thought it was pretty hot stuff to be dating an upperclassman, but it just worked.
SPEAKER 2: Isn't that one?
ALMA RHINE: We always say, we met at Fenn. And people say, where's that?
SPEAKER 1: And then he went on-- you said he was an engineer? In engineering--
ALMA RHINE: Well, he was in chemical engineering. And so I would never have met him if it hadn't been for a freshmen camp, because the engineers are over here and the Arts and Science are over here. But we met and clicked, I guess.
SPEAKER 1: Then after graduation, you went on to get your degree in teaching. You taught--
ALMA RHINE: Actually, I still had 12 hours left here when I transferred to Kent. In my first 12 hours at Kent, I transferred back here to graduate. But I started there because I could start-- all I had left here was electives, and that made it easy to do. And I transferred there with no education classes, and so I had to take 60 hours in education which were all undergraduate classes. And so I went-- I started in January and went through December.
SPEAKER 1: OK. Good. [INAUDIBLE]
ALMA RHINE: No, no quarters off.
SPEAKER 2: That was fast, geez.
ALMA RHINE: And then I was able to get my teaching certificate right away.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, that was fast. Yes.
ALMA RHINE: And it was concentrated. But it was-- maybe because I enjoyed the classes there a lot, they were of my particular interest, I found it much easier.
SPEAKER 1: Where did you teach then?
ALMA RHINE: I taught in South Euclid Lyndhurst, I started in January replacing a teacher who is pregnant. And I taught in Green Road School. Now hardly anybody in South Euclid Lyndhurst just knows where Green Road School was. In fact, my classmates, the people I graduated from high school with, said oh, we went to Greene Rhodes School in the kindergarten.
But it was six classes in the whole building. It had been South Euclid High School. Now I don't know how they arranged classes in six rooms in South Euclid High School, but maybe there were more then and it had just been remodeled. And I went to do a second grade class there. And I followed a teacher who was very disciplined, and very to task with the kids, and it made it so easy for me to slide into that classroom and not have to worry about discipline when I was learning about teaching.
SPEAKER 2: Right.
ALMA RHINE: And so she was a great person to follow. And I still communicate with-- well, that was probably January of '53, and I still communicate with a couple of those teachers that I taught with then. It was a nice-- with just six of us in the building, it was a really nice association with them. I do have to tell a funny thing about that, though.
I didn't have the early orientation to the building, I just slid in there teaching. And in the spring, we had a fire drill. And I busily closed all the windows, and followed my class out, and I didn't know where they went. They were gone. Oh, my gosh. I walked around the building. I walked around the back. They were gone. The bell rang for them to come back in, and I went back in my room, and there they sat.
[LAUGHTER]
And they said, oh, you did so well on the fire drill, but let's do it once more. And this time I followed them, and I found what door they went out. Well, there was a front door to the building, and stores had been built in front of it. And they went out the front door because we were right close there. Went out the front door and back, and very orderly.
SPEAKER 2: That sounds delightful.
ALMA RHINE: Oh, you know, you ask all sorts of questions, but you don't think to ask-- where do they go for fire drill? So I always think of that as my introduction to fire drills.
SPEAKER 2: How delightful.
ALMA RHINE: But they were wonderful. They were a wonderful class and didn't get wild.
SPEAKER 2: No.
SPEAKER 1: Well, how many years did you teach then, all together?
ALMA RHINE: All together-- well, I taught in South Euclid Lyndhurst, and then I left teaching to raise a family. And after out of teaching about 15 years, I went back. Meantime, we had moved to Bedford, and I went back to teaching in Bedford.
And probably I had, well, not probably. I did have 30.6 years. Yeah. 30.6. Because I had had some time substituting in-between before I went back full time. So that was-- yeah, it was just a long time. And I said, you know, I had to teach quite a long while because I took a 15 year maternity leave.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, sure. It was a wonderful time for your children.
ALMA RHINE: Yeah, it was. It was. And I stayed home with--
SPEAKER 2: Good.
ALMA RHINE: --my kid, although I did substitute. And substituting, you could say, I can't come today. My kids are sick.
SPEAKER 2: That's right. Which is nice, yes.
ALMA RHINE: So they kind of like having Mom come to school with them. And I only went to the school that they went to, so that I wouldn't have to send them out after I left or something like that. So I just went to their school.
SPEAKER 2: That was a nice way of doing it [INAUDIBLE].
ALMA RHINE: It was nice. It was nice.
SPEAKER 1: And did you say some of your children came to Fenn College?
ALMA RHINE: Grandchildren.
SPEAKER 1: Grandchildren.
ALMA RHINE: I have three grandchildren. My granddaughter graduated from Worcester, but my two grandsons are here.
SPEAKER 1: Wow.
ALMA RHINE: One is in his third year, and one in his fourth year. And the fourth year one is majoring in music. So we get down here-- well, he's in the wind ensemble, the orchestra, and the chorus. And each of those groups have two concerts a semester. So we come down here six times a semester, if we possibly can, to hear the music.
And then our other grandson is in his third year. And I hesitate to say they're seniors or juniors or whatever because when I asked them, they say I'm in my fourth year or I'm in my third year. So if that's what they say, that's what I'll say.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 1: What's his major? What's the others?
ALMA RHINE: The other one's major is computer. And I'm not exactly sure what phase of computer work he wants to get into, but he is majoring in computer and likes it very much. And he talks about this building, most of his classes are in this building, he said. And, excuse me, and so I'm glad to have been in this building and find out what he's talking about.
SPEAKER 1: You'll have to take a look at it. There's a nice lobby like out there, just to sit around in--
ALMA RHINE: Well--
SPEAKER 1: --and visit, have a cup of coffee.
ALMA RHINE: Maybe I'll see them over there.
[LAUGHTER]
What, my grandmother follows me around.
[LAUGHTER]
But we get over to the music building mostly. We park in the garage there and go right in the music building.
SPEAKER 2: Music building, what a difference from the days of the tower. And that was--
ALMA RHINE: Oh, my goodness. I do remember talking about music. Mrs. Hisey ...darn it, Anna? Hisey. Or Ann Hisey She taught music, and that was a lot of fun. I really, really enjoyed that. And she wrote a song about Fenn. And I noticed that this-- they have the song that Fred Waring wrote in the back of this.
SPEAKER 2: Yes, but there's another one.
ALMA RHINE: And they have a CSU song back there. But she wrote one that was much, much more singable I thought. That's my opinion. And I don't know if it had disappeared through the ages or what?
SPEAKER 2: I don't know. I think it's-- Was it the one-- was it-- "When first we meet the dawn of days, thy name o' Fenn will stir the breeze." or something like that?
ALMA RHINE: No. Hers was--
SPEAKER 2: There's another one.
ALMA RHINE: "Sing to Fenn, our alma mater. Sing her praises loud and clear." See if I can remember. "We, her loyal sons and daughters. Cherish her name. Tell of her fame. Far and near."
SPEAKER 2: Oh.
ALMA RHINE: It was very, very singable.
SPEAKER 1: That's somewhere. It's somewhere in the archives, I'm sure.
ALMA RHINE: Yes. And I liked her very much.
SPEAKER 2: Good teacher. Yes.
ALMA RHINE: I'm trying to think about other women I might have had. It kind of all fades together through the years--
SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm.
ALMA RHINE: --and you need to look at a yearbook, I guess, to remember some of it.
SPEAKER 2: I remember some of them, yes.
SPEAKER 1: And did you get to take a language?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. I took Spanish. I had taken Spanish in high school. And when I got here, I took Spanish again. And I had an instructor who was just absolutely outstanding. She was so good. I don't know where she was from, whether she was from Mexico. I think Spanish had been her native tongue. And, oh, my goodness, she was good. And I really liked her a lot, and it was a good class.
And the only thing I really didn't like was that Professor that said, I'm here to flunk out as many freshmen as I can.
[LAUGHTER]
And you recognize that line.
SPEAKER 1: What class was that?
ALMA RHINE: It was History, World History.
SPEAKER 2: World History.
ALMA RHINE: And I was always good in history, but I sure was scared out of that class.
SPEAKER 2: Isn't that awful?
SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] Sounds like Joe Ink, but it wouldn't have been him, I don't think, at that time.
SPEAKER 2: Giving everyone the business eye.
ALMA RHINE: Yeah, I think he left Fenn shortly before I graduated.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
ALMA RHINE: I think he had already left Fenn.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah, you had a different history teacher, I hope, after that.
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes, I did. And he scared me too.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 2: Oh no.
ALMA RHINE: I guess I just got scared. I was one of these kids that got scared at everything. I was probably a person who would have benefited by staying out of school for a year, and then going to college just to mature a little bit. But if you stay out a year, I don't know if you'll go back.
SPEAKER 1: That's another thing, yes.
ALMA RHINE: So, you know-- anyhow, I have thought of that since.
SPEAKER 2: Yes.
ALMA RHINE: I certainly didn't think of it then.
SPEAKER 2: No.
ALMA RHINE: I felt like I was mature enough.
SPEAKER 1: You followed the family.
ALMA RHINE: Right. Right.
SPEAKER 1: You followed the family, yes. Talk about the Y.
ALMA RHINE: All right. We had some classes in the Y at 22nd and Prospect. Some classes, especially my speech class, was in the Y, but we also had classes in the Johnson Building which was attached to the Y. Just walk through a doorway to get to the Johnson Building. There were very small rooms in that building. And then behind the Johnson Building was the Fenn Building where the chemistry labs were and science was.
A story that I have about the Johnson Building is, I had psychology in the Johnson Building right after lunch. Very small room, and the heaters, the forced water heaters, and I sat there right after lunch fighting to stay awake. Oh, it was awful.
And I had Dr. Kreider. And Dr. Kreider was a very good instructor. And my eyes turning inside out, practically, to try to keep them open. But right after lunch next to that heater was awful. But I think he was understanding, that it was right after lunch and sitting next to that heater.
We walked from Fenn Tower across Euclid beside some building, and then climbed over a small wall, maybe a three foot wall, and through another backyard to get over to the Y without walking clear to the corner and around it. So when the weather was nice, we walk through back yards.
SPEAKER 2: You took a shortcut.
SPEAKER 1: Did you ever have any problems because you were a woman with any of the instructors?
ALMA RHINE: Not that I was aware of. I didn't feel any problems with them. It just was the-- we were here, you know? Major Jenks was Dean of Students, and one of my friends would see him and she would say, "Hello, Major Jenks." Because she thought that was his title, not his name. And, of course, we teased her later on for calling him by his first name.
I remember our graduation, he led the graduation, led the students in for graduation. We graduated at Severance Hall, and the organ-- that was before the organ quit working. The organ worked, except that day it didn't.
And a young student who was very good was to play the organ for us. And he walked out, and he fiddled around, fiddled around, and then he walked backstage again. And then some more people came out, and fiddled around and fiddled around, and then they went backstage again. And we waited and waited, and finally he said, we're going.
So we started down the aisle without music. And partway through coming in to Severance Hall, they got the organ going and played for us. We got Pomp and Circumstance. Finally got Pomp and Circumstance.
But I thought about him because he said, that's it. We're not waiting any longer. And we went down the aisle without music in the beginning. And graduation was interesting because with a name began with an 's', you are always at the end of the line. There were so few graduating with Arts and Science that I was right in the front row. I think Arts and Science girls, girls and fellows, were all of the front row. And then came the business administration, and then after that, the engineers.
SPEAKER 2: Engineers.
ALMA RHINE: But I thought, here I am in the front row.
SPEAKER 2: At Severance, yes, graduating.
SPEAKER 1: Was it a small class or-- Arts were, probably more business and engineers.
ALMA RHINE: It was small, Arts and Science. But it was, I think, quite large. Business, and then engineers, were quite large.
SPEAKER 1: And you had the evening school, too, did you?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER 1: They had to be graduating too. Yeah.
ALMA RHINE: We found that we could let anything lay around any place during the day, but not in the evening. It might disappear in the evening.
SPEAKER 2: Oh, my goodness.
ALMA RHINE: But during the day, nobody took anything that belonged to anybody else. And that was kind of an interesting to me, that you just-- come 6 o' clock, you better gather up your stuff.
SPEAKER 1: Would you have to spend some evenings here for classes or activities?
ALMA RHINE: Probably for activities.
SPEAKER 1: Activities, [INAUDIBLE].
ALMA RHINE: I think my classes were probably over by 5--
SPEAKER 2: By 5.
ALMA RHINE: --at least.
SPEAKER 2: And then you had the evening school coming in, but just for your activities then.
ALMA RHINE: Or we might have a sorority, something going on with a sorority. And that was always evening. And it was always at school because we didn't have a sorority house.
SPEAKER 2: Right, [INAUDIBLE].
ALMA RHINE: And that's why probably things that belong to the sorority exist in someone's attic.
SPEAKER 2: Yes.
ALMA RHINE: Because someone would store it, and then we'd forget about it and move on.
SPEAKER 2: Move on, right. Yeah. Would you have a lot of the activities in Panel Hall?
ALMA RHINE: Oh, yes. Yes. In fact, I don't know if Panel Hall still exists the way it did. But my one grandson lived in Fenn Tower.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
ALMA RHINE: And the elevators that we took in the front hall, only went to the third floor or something, and we would take them all the way to the 18th floor. The elevators they took, they are kind of behind those elevators.
SPEAKER 1: Those elevators go right to Panel Hall, and the other side goes to the dorm room. And it's like an activity room. There's TVs in there and games they can play for the dorm students.
ALMA RHINE: And several-- two or three elevators back there that they took.
SPEAKER 1: The other side goes to the dorm rooms.
ALMA RHINE: Yeah. To the dorm rooms. Like when you were here, and the elevators went to the dorms or your classes or--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
ALMA RHINE: Yeah, that was in the front entryway.
SPEAKER 2: Yes.
ALMA RHINE: Another thought I have when I talk about the entryway is the door, the front door is kind of recessed into the building, the entryway. And when it was windy, you couldn't hardly get out the door. And I mean, you would have to push hard to get that door to open.
And one evening I was down here, and I got out the door, it was a snowy, windy evening, and the wind blew me to the corner. And I hung on to a pole, waiting for the light to change. When the light changed, it pushed me across the street and I fell down, and it pushed me all the way across the street, sitting down. And I got up, and hung on to a pole till the bus came, and then I got on the bus. Everything I had on was ripped and my knees were skinned, but as we rode out Euclid Avenue on the bus, not another soul was hanging on the poles like I had done.
SPEAKER 2: That 24th wind, huh?
ALMA RHINE: It just blew up 24th like crazy.
SPEAKER 2: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
ALMA RHINE: It was-- you know, you remember being blown across the street better than you remember some of your classes.
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 2: Well, actually that would-- not a very good experience.
SPEAKER 1: Some of the activities you did with your sorority-- dances, parades, floats?
ALMA RHINE: Well, we did, I think at least once a year, we sponsored a dance in Panel Hall. And a songfest where all the sororities, well, all two of the sororities, and the fraternities competed. So they would all sing and compete. I remember doing that. I remember that we wore blue skirts and white blouses and blue ties as our uniform.
And different groups would sponsor dances in Panel Hall. And then we would have dances sponsored off campus. Usually end of the year type activities would be off campus, so we would have dances or something.
SPEAKER 1: And I think, your sorority, the Gammas, they had Christmas parties for children every year, didn't they? Over the years, if I'm remembering some of the history or--
ALMA RHINE: I don't remember.
SPEAKER 1: OK.
ALMA RHINE: We did a lot of different things, but I don't remember that.
SPEAKER 1: But a lot of different activities then.
ALMA RHINE: Um-hmm. And in the 10 years between my sister and me, activities were entirely different. Like they did a rodeo or a Western program, and really worked hard on it. And I don't remember that we worked that hard on something. Maybe the difference was that I was little, and I thought those big girls were really working harder, but I don't think we did anything as ambitious as that.
SPEAKER 2: As that, yeah, yeah.
ALMA RHINE: But we had a nice group, a nice friendly group.
SPEAKER 1: Were you on the yearbook or anything?
ALMA RHINE: No. No, I wasn't. It seems to me I did something on a total college level, but I can't now remember what.
SPEAKER 1: The Cauldron, maybe? The newspaper, The Cauldron?
ALMA RHINE: No. But when I come down here for the music programs, usually they have a pile of newspapers in the hall and I always take a newspaper to read what's going on.
SPEAKER 2: So you have your family [INAUDIBLE].
ALMA RHINE: My granddaughter graduated from Worcester college, and she got a Fulbright scholarship and taught English in Germany on that Fulbright scholarship for a year. She came home in the middle of July, and was home for a month and a half, and then went to the Peace Corps. And she's now in Azerbaijan with a Peace Corps. And probably will not be able to communicate with us by email, at least very often, if again.
But I was riding down Cedar Road with her and talking about the streetcars. And she said, Grandma, where did the streetcars run on Cedar Road? They ran off on the edge, like down the lawn part which is lawn and trees and stuff now.
But every now and then, a motorman would go down Cedar Hill very fast and that streetcar just wobbled back and forth. And once or twice, it did turn over. Thank goodness, not when I was on it. But you'd always hold your breath when you went down Cedar Hill because it wobbled.
And then from Cedar Hill, it curved around there at the bottom of Cedar Hill and came up Euclid Avenue. And then I took the streetcar, and then it came down Euclid Avenue and stopped right at 24th and Euclid. So riding back and forth was fairly easy. We took the Shepherd bus to Noble Road, and then at Noble Road caught the streetcar and came all the way down.
But during the time I was a student at Fenn, streetcars quit running and we took buses. And the Redifer bus came from Route 91 in Mayfield Heights, and all the way down to 24th and Euclid. We didn't have trade anymore. But riding the streetcars was an adventure.
SPEAKER 2: Well, you got the bus right by Fenn Tower, and came and got off there. So you didn't have much time to spend any time in downtown at all.
ALMA RHINE: No.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
ALMA RHINE: No, because we would ride--
SPEAKER 2: --just right there and home and back down.
ALMA RHINE: One night, it wasn't late. Late afternoon, maybe. I was waiting for the streetcar, and they had a concrete stand in the middle of the street right beside the railroad track. Streetcar tracks. And we could stand there in the middle of the street and wait for the streetcar.
And a car went by with a single man in it, or a lone man. And then pretty soon, a car went by again. And then pretty soon, that car went by again. And I thought, maybe I better get off of this stand in the middle of the street. And I went and stood in a doorway. And then when I saw the streetcars coming, I went out to get the streetcar.
SPEAKER 2: You know, one of your scares here.
ALMA RHINE: Yeah, he kind of frightened me. And I-- maybe he was all right, but he went by too many times.
SPEAKER 2: Exactly. Exactly.
ALMA RHINE: So I thought, get out of the way.
SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
ALMA RHINE: But we really did feel safe down here.
SPEAKER 2: Yes.
ALMA RHINE: We watched ourselves. I mean, it's a city, but we really did feel safe on campus.
SPEAKER 1: Do you do-- where did you do research in the [INAUDIBLE]? What was the library like back [INAUDIBLE]?
ALMA RHINE: The library was on the opposite end of the third floor, opposite Panel Hall. It was small. It was limited. I did all my research at Cleveland Public Library. So I would go down there very, very often. And interestingly, my one son works there now. But I did all my research at the Cleveland Public Library.
SPEAKER 1: And I bet you walked.
ALMA RHINE: Yes. We walked everywhere.
SPEAKER 2: Yes. [LAUGHS] Yes. Yes.
ALMA RHINE: And every now and then, my sister or somebody would ask me to run an errand while I was down here, and it worked out very well. But I went to the library very often. The college library was limited.
SPEAKER 2: Just one small room up there, wasn't it? Just--
ALMA RHINE: Yes.
SPEAKER 2: --the size of Panel Hall, wasn't it?
ALMA RHINE: Yeah. Probably the size of almost the size of Panel Hall, maybe a little bit bigger than Panel Hall.
SPEAKER 1: It wasn't much bigger.
ALMA RHINE: But there wasn't, there wasn't a lot there.
SPEAKER 2: No.
ALMA RHINE: But Cleveland Public Library just had everything, and we were lucky to be that close to it.
SPEAKER 2: Yes. Sure, yeah.
ALMA RHINE: I don't think there could be a college library as complete as Cleveland Public Library. And so, we were lucky to have it close by so that we could do research there.
SPEAKER 2: That was a nice part of being right in, almost in the downtown.
ALMA RHINE: Sure. Sure.
SPEAKER 1: Getting back to your daughter who taught in Germany on the Fulbright. Where did she teach in Germany when she was stationed there?
ALMA RHINE: My daughter-- my granddaughter.
SPEAKER 1: Your granddaughter, I'm sorry.
ALMA RHINE: My granddaughter taught in a school in Hanau, Germany. She lived in Frankfurt and taught in Hanau, and the interesting part about Hanau is that is where my husband was stationed during the war. Well, during the Korean conflict. And so, he had pictures of buildings bombed out--
SPEAKER 2: From World War II even?
ALMA RHINE: Yes, from World War II. And she was able to send back pictures of the same building rebuilt. And so, it really was interesting to have her in Hanau comparing notes with Grandpa. But she bought one book for a picture that was in it. And it was taken at an Oktoberfest, and it was a picture of a child with someone dressed in a bear suit with their arm around the child. And we have a picture of that same bear with his arm around my husband when he was in service in Hanau.
SPEAKER 2: Talk about coincidence.
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes. Of all the places she could have been sent, she went to Hanau. And he said that was a precious metal center, and so it was really bombed out during the Second World War. But we were able to compare some pictures with then and now, and that was very interesting. We would like to have gone, but didn't make it.
SPEAKER 1: We've sort of touched on this. I mean, you went to Fenn when it was really basically almost an all-male school, engineers and business. Did it feel male oriented when you were there?
ALMA RHINE: Yes. Yes, I think they said it was 10 to 1, and you were aware of that. Except when you're in School of Arts and Science, it's not like being in the engineering school. I'm sure the engineering were, well, we had one of our sorority sisters who was majoring in engineering. I'm sure that she felt it more than we felt it in Arts and Science. I'm sure she would be the only girl in many of the classes.
SPEAKER 1: She never talked about it?
ALMA RHINE: I don't recall that she did. Just that-- mostly men, and that's the way it was.
SPEAKER 1: And did she finish her engineering here?
ALMA RHINE: I think she did. She was a couple of years behind me, but I think she did finish it.
SPEAKER 2: OK. Anything else?
ALMA RHINE: I can't think of anything else.
SPEAKER 2: Alma Sutter Rhine, thank you so much for all your information about your years at Fenn, and just your life in this greater Cleveland area and your family, too. Thank you.
ALMA RHINE: You're welcome.
