Streaming Media in Cleveland Memory:
The Gay 90's with Buck Harris

Transcript

00:00:00 Announcer 1

The following is a special presentation. Airing of this program does not signify that 1420 WHK is endorsing a particular viewpoint or lifestyle, but talk radio is first and foremost a marketplace of ideas. Toward that end WHK is proud to serve as a forum for sincerely held viewpoints. What you are about to hear may not be suitable for all family members.

00:00:27 Announcer 2

Get ready Cleveland WHK is taking talk show radio to new heights.

00:00:33 Announcer 3

So fasten your seat belts, return your tray tables to their original positions, and sit tight.

00:00:38 Announcer 2

Stay tuned for two hours of Cleveland's most provocative and stimulating talk show. Sometimes serious, sometimes humorous. But never straight talk. It's the gay 90s with Buck Harris.

00:00:51 Announcer 3

Call 578-1420 to get in on the conversation.

00:00:56 Buck Harris

Well, Cleveland we have arrived. Boy, it seems like it's been a long time coming, but we're here. My name is Buck Harris, the host of Gay 90s and I'm going to be here for the next two hours.

00:01:07 Buck Harris

I have in my studio tonight, some guests from the lesbian Gay Community Center. Um Lee Robertson, Aubrey Wertheim. But first I want to make a few announcements. One is that for those of you who are tuning in, or have stayed tuned, for the Bruce Willis show, obviously this is not it.

00:01:23 Buck Harris

You're welcome to join us, but if you want to catch Bruce Willis- Willison- Williams rather, I'm sorry, you can catch him Monday night at 7:00 o'clock for all three hours. The- the other announcement I want to make is that next week we're going to be starting a tad late because the Cleveland Crunch is entered into the playoffs and they’re gonna be playing Buffalo Blizzard next Friday night. So we'll be starting at about 10:00 o'clock. Otherwise, I want to welcome you to The Gay 90s. The voice of Northeast Ohio's gay and lesbian community. It is the intent. Of this show, to provide programming that represents the diversity of our gay and lesbian community and reveal the deep cultural and historical contributions that, for too long have gone unrecognized. The opinions expressed are those of the host and guests, and not necessarily those of WHK and its management.

00:02:06 Buck Harris

If you are a member of the community, a supporter or just a curious listener, we welcome you. And please give us a call at 578-1420. A word about our advertisers, unless otherwise stated, you can assume their sexual orientation to be either gay, bi or straight.

00:02:23 Buck Harris

This is the premier show, and premier is French for ‘they don't know what the hell they're doing and they're scared out of their wits’. I gotta say, I'm a little bit apprehensive but having two friendly faces here in the studio certainly puts me at ease a bit more. By the way, if you do want to get in our conversation, you can call 578-1420.

00:02:43 Buck Harris

Our topic tonight, I really want to address the issue of the political agenda of the 90s. And- and who better to talk about those topics than those who are involved and enmeshed in the subject day in and day out? Aubrey and Lee both work at the lesbian gay community center. Lee as its director and Aubrey as director of programming. My first question is to you Aubrey.

00:03:03 Buck Harris

Of all the things that we need to face, to look at, what do you see as the most pressing agenda for the lesbian gay community?

00:03:12 Aubrey Wertheim

Actually I was just here to see Bruce Willis.

00:03:14 [Buck Harris and Lee Robertson chuckle]

00:03:15 Aubrey Wertheim

But uh, No-no, um, I still think, despite all the- the flak going on about the military situation, I still think repeal of sodomy statutes across the country is one of the most important things. Any place where gay people are still un-convicted criminals to me is our most dire liability.

00:03:34 Buck Harris

Mmm-hmm.

00:03:35 Aubrey Wertheim

So just across the border in Michigan say, there's still a sodomy statute in state, um on the books um... Where you hail from Lee, actually-

00:03:43 Buck Harris

Yeah.

00:03:44 Lee Robertson

Yeah.

00:03:45 Aubrey Wertheim

Lovely felon that you are... So- So, I think it's really important to get those statutes off the books, and get people out of that status.

00:03:53 Buck Harris

There are 23 states that still have those statutes on the books. Is that correct?

00:03:57 Aubrey Wertheim

Sure, and a couple, like uh... Texas and Kentucky, have said in courts of law that they are not valid, but they have not taken them off the books. So, as long as those logs exist in legislation, they're dangerous. 

00:04:11 Buck Harris

OK. You know I- I was talking with Lee Fisher earlier today and-and uh, asked him about the sodomy laws and said well with White stepping down from the Supreme Court and- and now that they're seeming to be more balanced on the Supreme Court, is there a likelihood that if- that if- the... Hardwich vs the State of Georgia were- were replayed today, how would the outcome be?

00:04:30 Buck Harris

And he said he thought it would be a very different ball game. So I- I think if it's going to happen, I think we need to- But the problem is you gotta have a test case, so we need to have two consenting homosexuals, lesbians or gay men, get caught in the act again.

00:04:45 Aubrey Wertheim

That's true.

00:04:46 Buck Harris

Yeah, yeah.

00:04:47 Aubrey Wertheim

Still, I think ‘ball game’ is the wrong an-analogy there, Buck.

00:04:49 Buck Harris

Perhaps, but I do want to say, though, that Ohio is not one of those states that still has those laws on the book, although it is legal for in Ohio- What- What are some of the laws in Ohio regarding homosexuality?

00:05:02 Aubrey Wertheim

Well, it's still legal to discriminate against members of the community in Housing and employment and public accommodation. Certain... areas, municipalities have passed laws that have protections like Columbus, but in Cleveland there's currently nothing on the books that affords those protections.

00:05:21 Buck Harris

Mmkay... Lee, what do you see as the most pressing issue?

00:05:24 Lee Robertson

Well, I think this- our civil rights, having our civil rights, um, even the disclaimer at the beginning of the show about that ‘this might be offensive to some people’. I want to live in a world where we will celebrate being lesbian and gay and everybody will celebrate it.

00:05:37 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:05:38 Lee Robertson

That my nephew who's 8 loves me because I'm a lesbian, not in spite of that. And so, I want us to be able to work for- So, and I think that that's part of being able to- work and be lesbian and live anywhere I want and be a lesbian. 

00:05:51 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:05:52 Lee Robertson

And have domestic partnerships and have t rights to have my partner have the rights to medical benefits and ma-me, and vice versa. Those are as important as of course the health issues and they're all interconnected, and I just really believe that until we can have lives and not ‘lifestyles’, uhm, that's my political agenda.

00:06:13 Buck Harris

Yeah, I'd like to talk in a few minutes more about what we can do in Cleveland to- to see an ordinance for example being passed, but you know what? We have some callers lined up here and our number, by the way, is 578-1420. This is the gay 90s with Buck Harris on WHK, and we're going to go to Matt on line one. Matt, you're on.

00:06:30 Matt

Uh yeah. As a gay person in Cleveland, what is it basically with like the community that is all of us working together? 'cause I see a lot of controversy in some of the nightclubs and things like that, between just homosexual men and homosexual women.

00:06:45 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:06:46 Matt

That is together, can we come together as one? You know, like they say ‘divided we fall, together, we stand as one.’ You know, is there something that we can do to solve this problem? Because it seems to be a lot 'cause you have your lesbian clubs and you have your gay clubs and you know to me being a young gay male, in Cleveland, it's like I've always seen this controversy.

00:07:06 Buck Harris

Yeah, you know I- I gotta say, and then I'll turn it over to Lee and Aubrey, But- and even the naming of this program, I- I thought I might take some flack calling at ‘The Gay 90’s’ and- and instead of ‘The Gay and Lesbian’- I mean which didn't flow, it didn't trickle off the tongue. But- but I do want to say, I want to reflect in, throughout this show, that and- and certainly Karen Harrison, our- my- the co-host who will be joining us for the news and the second hour of the show, I do want balance. But how- how do you maintain that in the community? I think it's an age-old problem the- the divisiveness between the men's and women's community. What's being done?

00:07:38 Aubrey Wertheim

Well, first of all I think it's a matter of perception. I don't think a take on the bars is that the entire community, by any means. You can drop by the center on a Wednesday night and see 60 lesbians and gay men square-dancing their boots off and-

00:07:51 Matt

Yes, that’s right, [unintelligible].

00:07:53 Aubrey Wertheim

And there are a lot of other venues where people are working together. Um... So, I really think it depends where you're socializing and whom you're socializing with.

00:08:01 Matt

Mm-hmm.

00:08:02 Aubrey Wertheim

And bars tend to be gender specific in our community, and not just in Cleveland, but bars are just bars.

00:08:10 Matt

Yeah, sure, that’s [unintelligible].

00:08:11 Lee Robertson

I guess I would um, just add to that... that sexism does exist between men and women, and lesbian and gay men, too. And that's real, and it's something that we need to dialogue wi- on and about and- and try to come to some- some understanding of it.

00:08:28 Lee Robertson

I think there's this myth that all gays and lesbians come from one voice and that we can't disagree. It's just trying to learn how to do that and do it respectfully, and that's not always how we do it.

00:08:39 Buck Harris

Well, I also think, from the- from the women that I know in my life, um, who are dealing with the issue of feminism. 

00:08:45 Lee Robertson

Mm-hmm?

00:08:46 Buck Harris

And- and then the issue of- of being gay, I mean it's a- it's a double agenda, and- and I think sometimes... That may override the- or may interfere with the ability to coalesce around all of the issues. And so I- I- My experience is that there's been a- I- I perceived more percent more separatism in the women's community than I do in the men’s. What do you think?

00:09:08 Lee Robertson

Well, it's hard for... as a feminist and connected to the feminist community, more than the separatist community, but I know a few separatists, and I understand separatism. I think it's really important that we all have our private safe space, which is not necessarily separatism, I will say that, so that we can energize and come to the tables on the issues that are all of our needs like civil rights, our civil rights.

00:09:32 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:09:34 Lee Robertson

I don't know. I think there's a lot of men who are separatists, they just don't talk about it in that way.

00:09:39 Buck Harris

Hmm.

00:09:40 Lee Robertson

Um, and I've heard a lot of that throughout.

00:09:42 Buck Harris

OK, we're going to go to another call. And, uh, Mike from Cleveland you're in.

00:09:48 Mike

Hi Buck. I was calling- And hi Aubrey and Lee. I was calling-

00:09:51 Lee Robertson

Hello.

00:09:52 Mike

-mainly to say that I think it's great that WHK is running the show that they're running, and I hope that they continue to do it. Uh, I'm calling more in favor for the show. 

00:10:02 Buck Harris

Great!

00:10:03 Lee Robertson

Thank you.

00:10:04 Mike

Um-

00:10:04 Buck Harris

And, you know I want to say to that, if- if those of you in the listening audience want to make sure this continues, we certainly would appreciate your calls and letters to the station to say, ‘keep going’. We need your support. The other thing you gotta do is support our advertisers because they're the ones who are putting us on the air. So uh, thank you very much, Mike for your call- We do need to go to a commercial break so that we can in fact pay for this show.

00:10:24 Buck Harris

And so, I want to say a word about, well, it used to be called Snickers. It is now called the Artful Dodger. They've changed their name.

00:10:30 Lee Robertson

Wow...

00:10:31- 00:11:40 Buck Harris

They've changed their décor. They've even added some new items on the menu, but thank God they haven't changed the ambiance because Artful Dodger is a family restaurant. Our family restaurant. It's a great place to go... You know, Mike and I met there four years ago. We go back every year for our anniversary and certainly many times in between. But boy, what a place... You want to hold hands with your lover? Knock yourself out. You want to have a birthday party for every friend? Camp it up. Snickers, Artful Dodger now, really is a great place to hang out. Good menu, great burgers... Their daily specials. They have a bar and, boy, with the weather now about to break we're going to be able to sit out in the patio in their back deck and it is really nice. And just a stone-throw away from Edgewater. You can walk through that tunnel and go at nighttime and walk on the beach. It's quite the place. Snickers, now called Artful Dodgers, is just at the end of 73rd St um... North of Detroit. Also on Monday nights, the first and third Mondays of the of the month, join Mike and I for bridge. We have beginners, tables and intermediate, and advanced. A great way to spend an evening and we're going to hear from a few other of our sponsors. Nedra, take it away.

00:11:41-00:12:11 D.L. Dunkle and Associates Announcer

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00:12:15-00:13:14 Unknown Male Announcer

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00:13:16 Mike

My name is Mike and I have AIDS.

00:13:18 Buck Harris

Mike, why is it that you chose Critical Care America for your home health care?

00:13:22 Mike

When it became apparent to me that I was going to need home health care services, I knew that there were a variety of places that I could go to, to achieve what my needs were. The one that I chose with Critical Care America. And the reasons I chose them, are the friendliness that that I experienced when calling to the office for help. I have my own nurse, I have a social worker and I have a dietician that is- is assigned to me.

00:13:50 Mike

I recall that when the equipment was coming to my home, I was very upset and my one-on-one nurse spent about four hours with me, helping me to adapt to the new environment. She took me for a walk and she called when she left, she checked back with me on several occasions to see that I was comfortable with my new environment.

00:14:09 Buck Harris

You do have a choice. Call Critical Care America at 871-1611.

00:14:17-00:15:17 Another Unknown Male Announcer

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00:15:18 Male Announcer 

Leonardo da Vinci, J Edgar Hoover.

00:15:20 Female Announcer

Anne Frank.

00:15:21 Male Announcer

Stephen Foster.

00:15:23 Female Announcer

Amelia Earhart, and Emily Dickinson.

00:15:24 Male Announcer

James Baldwin Alexander the Great, Dag Hammarskjöld.

00:15:27 Female Announcer

Florence Nightingale.

00:15:28 Male Announcer

Plato, Cole Porter, Popes John the twelfth and Julius the second, Socrates.

00:15:33 Female Announcer

And dear sweet Eleanor Roosevelt.

00:15:34 Male Announcer

And William Shakespeare would all be guests on The Gay 90’s with Buck Harris if they hadn't gone and died.

00:15:41 Buck Harris

All right, we're going to go back to the phones. This is Buck Harris on the Gay 90s, our phone number here is 578-1420. Call in if you want to get on the action. We're going to go to uh, caller 3, who is Mark from Parma. 

00:15:52 Mark

Hi, how’re you doing? 

00:15:53 Buck Harris

I'm fine Mark, how are you?

00:15:54 Mark

Uh, first of all I wanna- this is, a great surprise. I'm home on spring break from Ohio State and it's always nice to see these new things popping up like-

00:15:59 Buck Harris

Great!

00:16:00 Mark

Like the radio show. Um, I had more of a comment than a question that um-

00:16:03 Buck Harris

OK.

00:16:04 Mark

A big suggestion that you should really try and include bisexual in- in titles of things. Um, I know it's not in the Community Center title, and it was also missing from the title of the show, in like the- the subtitle...

00:16:16 Buck Harris

Yeah... Um... I'll tell you, I would be- It would be difficult in print, and then uh, logistically- I'm going to be doing some shows in the future on the issue of bisexuality.

00:16:26 Mark

Uh-huh.

00:16:27 Buck Harris

But um... you know, I- I guess all I can say is that there's so much print time, so much- uh, on a T-shirt. God, where do you put it all? So, um, so I- I certainly want and hope that the bisexual community will be listening in and tuned in and- and I- I promise you, I'll give you some airtime. I want to talk about those issues as well.

00:16:42 Mark

Okay.

00:16:43 Buck Harris

Okay? Thanks for calling. We're going to go to another call. Um, we're goin’ to go to Brenda. Brenda, you're on.

00:16:50 Brenda

Hello.

00:16:51 Buck Harris

Hi, how are you?

00:16:52 Brenda

Hi. Um, I'm a lesbian.

00:16:54 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:16:55 Brenda

From, the Cleveland community... And I'm just calling, actually, to show my support... And, um, figure that I'm glad that you have this... kind of um, connective, kind of community thing.

00:17:12 Buck Harris

Great! Well listen, I- I want to thank you for your call, and also, if you want to lend your support make sure to support our advertisers. And when you do, when you go to Artful Dodgers or Condom-Nation or make sure you say ‘We heard it on WHK Gay 90's.’

00:17:26 Brenda 

Or... the Nickel!

00:17:27 Buck Harris

Or Five-Cent Decision, yes!

00:17:29 Brenda

Yes!

00:17:30 Buck Harris

The-They’re one of our sponsors, yeah. Great place. So uh, we'll- we'll uh, we- Please stay tuned and call in again and thank you for your call.

00:17:37 Brenda

OK, thank you.

00:17:39 Buck Harris

OK, we’re gonna go to now another caller. We got line one, um, Jody?

00:17:43 Jody

Yes!

00:17:44 Buck Harris

From North Olmsted.

00:17:45 Jody

That’s ri-

00:17:45 Buck Harris

No, Olmsted Falls.

00:17:46 Jody

Olmstead Falls.

00:17:48 Buck Harris

Yeah, well, how ya doin’?

00:17:49 Jody

Good! How are you?

00:17:50 Buck Harris

I’m fine.

00:17:51 Jody

I was calling just- I think it's super what you're doing. My sister and her lover have been lesbians for- for a few years and I am just so proud Buck that something like this is- has come up for ‘em. They've done a lot as far as, um community and- and um... trying to get things together for the, the gay community.

00:18:18 Buck Harris

Good.

00:18:19 Jody

And I just, I am so proud that- Buck, I saw you on Morning Exchange, actually, this morning and-00:18:27 Buck

Yeah, yeah.

00:18:27 Jody

I called my sister at work and I said ‘Joy, you're not going to believe this,’ but her lover knew that, um, you guys were on, and I am just so proud.

00:18:38 Buck Harris

Well, thank you and make sure to watch the evening news tonight. We're going to be on Channel 43, Channel 8 and Channel 3-

00:18:42 [Some crosstalk from Jody, Buck’s voice drowned it out]

00:18:44 Buck Harris

They've all been here.

00:18:45 Jody

They’re all there. 

00:18:46 Buck Harris

Yeah! And Lee is all decked up, and Aubrey is dressed to kill. And so uh-

00:18:51 Lee Robertson

Well, that’s why we’re on, we want dates.

00:18:52 Buck Harris

That's right.

00:18:53 Jody

[Laughs]

00:18:54 Buck Harris 

Thank you very much for calling.

00:18:55 Jody

Well thank you. 

00:18:56 Buck Harris

Alrighty.

00:18:57 Jody

Bye-bye.

00:18:58 Buck Harris

We've got a couple of callers waiting on the line, our number here is 578-1420. But you know what? Let's get back to the agenda here, which is the gay political agenda. I certainly appreciate all these calls. They've been wonderful and supportive. But Lee, the city ordinance, my impression when Mayor White took office was that if the if there ever was a time in Cleveland history that we could expect to see a city ordinance introduced banning discrimination based on sexual orientation, that the time would be now, what is your sense with the White administration?

00:19:29 Lee Robertson

Well, I- I'm a lot more encouraged after reading the article in the Gay People's Chronicle. Um, I know that the March Committee met with him and he was initially not- not endorsing the March until he got more facts. Um, I- you know, I- I was really encouraged when Clinton got into office and then with the lifting of the ban and all the controversy, and he seems to be backing off and it's sort of reminding me that, umm, that sometimes we expect a lot, 'cause we deserve so much more, and we end up taking the crumbs a lot of times. So I- I'm wanting to be hopeful, but I have to say right now I think we're really going to have to work hard to get Mayor White to support us. I think he has, I think City Hall is supportive. We've worked with Sam Thomas and Pat Purdy, and they're wonderful allies to our community.

00:20:21 Buck Harris

Is it likely though, that we're going to see this term end? You know, some of the word I've heard is that, ‘Well, let's not touch it. it's getting close to elections again and and, and we promise we'll address it in in the next administration.’ That's and- and I suspect that White’s going to be a two-term mayor at least and are they going to table this, do you think? 

00:20:42 Lee Robertson

Well if- if, I hope if they do that, this community gets really angry and says ‘No, this is not acceptable. I am a voter.’ And we certainly prove proved our voting power in terms of the Clinton administration and getting Clinton in office and I would really hope that Mayor White would hear from the community about this now as well as if there was some indication that he wasn't going to be behind it.

00:21:05 Aubrey Wertheim

And not just the mayor, council members. All representatives.

00:21:10 Buck Harris

All right, we're going to go to another call... Let's see, Esther, you're on.

00:21:15 Esther

Ah, good evening. I would like to say I was very prejudiced at one time-

00:21:20 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:21:20 Esther 

-against the homosexuals. But not too much now anymore, and I’ll tell you why. I'm getting older, a senior citizen very poor health and I'm listening to the remarks from the Circle Street Crowd. Now if they do the 69, how dare they talk against what these homosexuals do, right?

00:21:40 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:21:40 Esther

I hope I didn't offend anybody by using that expression.

00:21:44 Buck Harris

I think we're all pretty adult here.

00:21:46 Esther

OK... There- And not only that, I was watching Phil Donahue and I'm so fed up with the- what the Roman Catholic priests are doing, and I need to say that too, but. Do you, um, do you find in your different groups that you have a lot of people from various religions, in your group?

00:22:07 Buck Harris

Oh, I got to tell you. I mean, one of the things I hope this show will reflect over the next years- decade, who knows, however long we’re on the air, is in fact the diversity of our community, that there are our Jews and Catholics and all that stuff. You know what? We need to go to a commercial break, I really appreciate your call and- and please stay tuned and call back, OK?

00:22:26-00:23:23 Progressive Urban Real-Estate Announcer

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00:24:24 Leave it to Weaver Announcer

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00:24:32 Unknown Feminine Announcer

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00:24:58 Unknown Feminine Announcer

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00:25:09 Buck Harris

And now it's time for the local and national gay and lesbian news, with the High Priestess of News Reporting, Karen Harrison.

00:25:17-00:26:10 Karen Harrison

Hi Cleveland, this is Karen Harrison with the gay 90s News. Two studies published yesterday in the journal Nature report that the human immunodeficiency virus can hide for years in lymphoid organs such as the tonsils, spleen, adenoids and lymph nodes, before launching an aggressive assault on the body's immune system. Doctors Fauci and Haas both emphasized the need for finding drugs that can be used for comba- to combat the AIDS virus from the moment one discovers he or she is infected. Common practice today is to introduce the use of antivirals, like AZT, when one’s T helper cells drop below 500 for those who may- may have been exposed to HIV, there is compelling reason to get tested as early as possible. You can get tested and we recommend you do so anonymously at three sites around the city. Call the Free Clinic. For more information, early intervention is the key to living and thriving with HIV.

00:26:11-00:26:36 Karen Harrison

A new magazine is about to be released for those living with HIV. Life Plus, published by Strubbe Media Group out of New York will pu- will provide articles of information and encouragement, interviews with long term survivors, HIV etiquette, like when to tell a date, a topic never covered by Emily Post, and medical updates will be regular features in the journal. The magazine will be available through AIDS Organization and AIDS Treatment Centers.

00:26:37-00:26:59 Karen Harrison

Well, the city of Lakewood has finally acknowledged that it has a gay community and that some of its members are in need of AIDS services. D.I.F.F.A, Design Industry Foundation Fighting AIDS, provided Lakewood's Department of Health with a grant to provide direct services to 20 AIDS challenged individuals. Community member, Chris Anne McGregor, is coordinating the program. Call the Lakewood Health Department for more information.

00:27:00-00:27:26 Karen Harrison

Coming out is no laughing matter, according to For Better Or For Worse comic strip’s character Lawrence. We at Gay 90’s applaud Lynn Johnson, the strip’s creator for introducing one of the country's first openly gay characters. Not everyone is pleased, Clark Walworth, the managing editor of the Time- Twin Falls Times in Idaho, said his paper will not run the strip, but will offer- offer to those who will ask for it. Will they mail it in a plain brown envelope?

00:27:27-00:28:19 Karen Harrison

Yesterday, President Clinton seemed to be wavering on his commitment to lift the ban against gays in the military. Maintaining morale and order among the troops must be taken into consideration. White House communications director George Stephanopoulos- Stephanopoulos said President Clinton is going to take their concerns seriously and review them before he makes any final decision. Clinton is considering proposals to segregate troops by sexual preference, so as to avoid the conflict that might arise if gays and straights were assigned to close quarter confines. Were those- Will those who disclosed their sexual orientation be given a pink triangle to wear under their stripes? Gay Air Force Lieutenant Tracy Thorne, who recently spoke at the Cleveland City club, was quoted as saying, ‘From all the press coverage we've gotten lately, one would get the impression that all we do in the military is stand around and take showers. Come on Bill, stand tight on this one.’

00:28:20 Karen Harrison

Ohio Attorney General Lee Fisher had this to say about criticisms leveled against Clinton.

00:28:25 Lee Fisher

Oh, I think it's unfair to criticize the president at this juncture. The fact is, he's not made a decision. And as a public officeholder myself, I know that that you often consider many alternatives on the table before you reject them. The fact that this may be one alternative that he or his advisers are simply considering is not, seems to me, cause for premature criticism.

00:28:52 Karen Harrison

It's still against the law in 23 states in the US for gay men and lesbians to make love in the privacy of their own homes. The Supreme Court, under the Reagan administration upheld those laws in the Hardwich versus the state of Georgia. With the departure of conservative judge White, Buck Harris asked Attorney General-

[Lost audio/audio cuts out until 00:29:19]

00:29:19 Unknown Male Speaker, pre-recorded

-about naturally through the court system. It is true, uh, that with a different makeup on the Supreme Court, decisions could come up in another way. But, the fact is, that there would have to be another challenge to, for example, one of those laws somewhere in the country. And then if it wound its way up to the US Supreme Court it's possible that the balance on the court as a result of new appointments by President Clinton, could mean that the Supreme Court will rule a different way in two-three years.

00:29:47 Buck Harris

OK Karen, this just came in over the wires.

00:29:51 Karen Harrison

Oh my, an identified- an unidentified spokesperson for Cracker Barrel, the national restaurant chain that fired all of its gay and lesbian employees last year, said there is no connection between that action and the recent decline in patronage-tage at their eateries exit interviews at selected restaurants garnered these responses from dissatisfied customers. Quote, ‘The plates just don't look as nice as they used to. What happened to that cute candied-apple slice with parsley placed so nicely in the center? The food just doesn't look appealing anymore.’ From another ex-patron, ‘The waiter was appalling. His black pants were shiny, and he lacks social graces.’ Well.

00:30:27 Buck Harris

Well, there goes the Cracker Barrel. Tell me about gifts of Athena.

00:30:32 Karen Harrison

Gifts of Athena is a lesbian owned and operated book and gift store. They have a large selection of gay and lesbian books and periodicals. If you're shopping for a gift Buck or- they have a great selection of music, jewelry and local artwork. And guys, they do have a selection of books for gay men. Gifts of Athena on Lee Rd, just West of Cedar. Gifts of Athena also carries Gay 90 T shirts.

00:30:54 [Romanovsky and Phillips’ “Give Me a Homosexual” plays.]

Give me a homosexual... Loves in a homo-emotional way. I like a man of acceptance, give me a guy who is glad to be gay! Some of my peers-...

00:31:09 Buck Harris

Well we’re back. Boy, this first- we're into 40 minutes of the show, it's flown by.

00:31:15 Lee Robertson

It is.

00:31:16 Buck Harris

Holy mackerel, hold on to your seats. We're going to go back to the phones right away. Also, you know what I'm forgetting? We have some giveaways. First, we have some tickets for the Cleveland Film Festival, but you know what, you've gotta- We're going to do some Trivial Pursuit and we're going to be getting' to that stuff in a few minutes, so we'll have some giveaways all throughout the show, just hold in. Our number here is 578-1420. We need to go to line one though. He's been waiting for a while, Eugene you're on. 

00:31:44 Eguene

Good evening, first of all, let me congratulate you young man.

00:31:47 Buck Harris

Well, thank you!

00:31:48 Eugene

I am a-

00:31:49 Buck Harris

I like it when they say young man.

00:31:51 Eugene

I am 58 years old and I have lived in Cleveland some 40 years, and I am gay. And I am so proud tonight.

00:32:00 Buck Harris

Do you know what? You called me when I was on Merle Pauls’ show, didn’t you? 

00:32:03 Eugene

Yes I did.

00:32:04 Buck Harris

Well, how nice of you to call back, thanks.

00:32:05 Eugene

I am so proud of this moment, really, and I support you and I will be in your corner 100%. Because I've said thousands of times, gentlemen, homosexuals are human beings. They can achieve and be a somebody and just and we all don't walk around with long earrings and blighted eyebrows, and looking strange, some of us really can handle it. And like the lady said to you on TV last night, this Eleanor Hayes, You- a- you-you, ‘Are you tough enough?’ I believe you are 'cause you always sound like you had it. I'm in your corner young man.

00:32:47 Buck Harris

Thank you very much for calling-

00:32:48 Eugene

[Still talking through Buck] - The first time [unintelligible]

00:32:49 Buck Harris

Alright, stay tuned and uh, call in again. Thank you, Eugene

00:32:53 Eugene

I will.

00:32:54 Buck Harris

Alrighty, bye-bye, good evening.

00:32:55 [Dead telephone line sound]

00:32:55 Buck Harris

So what we were talking about was the gay political agenda. What about gays in the military? We had a little bit of a news thing on that, but you know, that seems to be coming up again, uh, recently there was on- The hearings, by the way, I want to- I want to put in a plug in for the hearings. They start on Monday, the Pentagon hearings, and they're going to be aired on WCPN from- starting at 9:30 in the morning, both on Monday and on Wednesday. So, listen in, this is important stuff. Where do you think we're going with that?

00:33:22 Buck Harris

Go ahead, Lee.

00:33:24 Lee Robertson

Um, well, I- it's like I said earlier, when we were talking about- Clin- Clinton seems to be going back and fo- forth and now we have this six month wait in the segregation issues. I- What I've been saying all along is, I don't think it's about gay and lesbian integrity in the military. It's been always the sexism and- and the heterosexual-

00:33:45 [Someone sneezes or coughs]

00:33:46 Lee Robertson

-integrity in the military that has outraged me. We had Tailhook, there's a brothel near just about every military base in the country, and I just-

00:33:56 Buck Harris

How would you know that?

00:33:57 Lee Robertson

Well, that's what I've heard.

00:33:58 Buck Harris

Oh, OK.

00:34:59 Lee Robertson

And everybody agrees, they all know that there is.

00:34:01 Buck Harris

Yeah.

00:34:02 Lee Robertson

I mean, I mean what- what I'm just trying to say is, is that again, is we're always scapegoated and of course, the myths are used against us that-

00:34:10 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:34:10 Lee Robertson

And particularly gay men. I mean, as usual, lesbians are invisible and people don't seem to be as concerned about us, but lesbian baiting happens and 1200 of us are kicked out every year, however-

00:34:23 Buck Harris

At a cost that is quite remarkable.

00:34:24 Lee Robertson

At a cost that is- At millions of dollars. And for many poor and working-class gays and lesbians, it's one of the few places that they can go and get a good education and- and a decent job and- and serve their country. So personally, It's difficult for me to talk about this issue because I'm a pacifist so [laughs] I have my own feelings about that personally, but I do-

00:34:50 Buck Harris

It's sorta like- it's sorta like ‘Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it’!

00:34:52 Lee Robertson

Exactly! Exactly...

00:34:53 Buck Harris

Yeah, yeah...

00:34:54 Lee Robertson 

So, but I again I do understand that that's not how everyone feels, and we are in the military. It is clearly ridiculous to this all this shower business and it- that is to me just really ridiculous.

00:35:08 Buck Harris

Yeah. If you were president, would you have addressed that issue so quickly into your Presidency?

00:35:19 Lee Robertson

Yeah I would address them all! I mean, which is probably why it wouldn't have been President.

00:35:24 Buck Harris

I guess behind my question is- is a- is a thought. I- I think that President Clinton would have been wise to table that for- for a short while anyway. I mean, because the criticism I think that was leveled against that the most was ‘Boy, aren't there more important things going on with the economy and- and whatnot and the world affairs right now?’ And- and I guess, I think he got more flak than he would have I, as a matter fact, I don't suspect he thought he was going to get as much coverage over that issue as he did. I mean, it turned into a zoo.

00:35:54 Aubrey Wertheim

Well, the political reasoning has always been you have to make your toughest moves in the beginning when the honeymoon is still in full flame.

00:36:01 Buck Harris

Yeah, but his honeymoon, boy, they didn't warm up the-.

00:36:02 Aubrey Wertheim

Gone down in flames.

00:36:03 Buck Harris

They didn't even warm up the bed.

00:36:03 Lee Robertson

Right. [laughs]

00:36:05 Aubrey Wertheim

I dunno, I think the whole sexual harassment thing is a big smokescreen because most of the sexual harassment in the military is men on men. Heterosexual men on any men you know, just you're not man enough, you’re not Butch enough, you’re not getting over the wall fast enough you sissy, fag, you fill in the blank. 

00:36:23 Buck Harris

Yeah, yeah.

00:36:24 Aubrey Wertheim

And gay men don't socialize and don't sexualize the way heterosexual men do. They don't sexually harass each other the way heterosexual men do. Um, sexual harassment is- is pretty much predicated on a stronger person, supposedly, harassing a weaker person, male-female. And male-male don't interact like that.

00:36:44 Buck Harris

OK, let's go to another caller. Let's see, Henry's been holding for a while. Henry, you’re on.

00:36:49 Henry

Uh good evening. I think one of the things that's really important in our community is that we recognize the diversity and we have to erode the stereotypes. I'd like to erode one right now.

00:37:03 Buck Harris

OK.

00:37:04 Henry

Supposedly we’re all wealthy, and we're all concerned only about ourselves. And I can tell you from my own experience, that's not true, 'cause I'm calling you from a payphone right now. I did have two other quick comments, though. The first has to do with the military. I have a viewpoint that I haven't heard expressed by anyone else-

00:37:29 Buck Harris

Okay, let’s hear it. 

00:37:30 Henry

And that is, that I would not fight for this country. As long as anywhere in this country, I don't enjoy the same civil and legal rights as the rest of the people in the country do.

00:37:45 Buck Harris

Good point.

00:37:46-00:38:46 Henry

Related to that, I heard you mention earlier Sam Thomas’ name. I've spoken with him on a number of occasions. I don't remember the beginning of February, and it may have been in January, but the National Association of Human Rights Workers came to Cleveland to hold their convention. And I thought that was an affront to human decency, that these people could hold their convention here in a city that does not protect its residents from discrimination in employment, housing or public accommodations. And because he's with- the President of that organization, I thought that he should be made aware of it. I wrote him a letter, I went down to City Hall, and talked to him for over an hour. I was embarrassed for him when I left because he made so many apologies for the White administration. When I got done talking to him, I'm going to make this quick-.

00:38:45 Buck Harris

Yeah we need to 'cause we got to a break very quickly.

00:38:48-00:39:23 Henry

When I got done talking to him I wrote a letter to the organization and I wrote one to Mr. White, and the point that I made was it reminded me of reading Martin Luther King's letter from a Birmingham jail. ‘Oh, just be patient. Please wait a little while longer’, that's what this man kept telling me. I'm tired of waiting. I pay taxes, and- and I would not vote for Mr. White again. And I think all these so called leaders of the gay community have got to stop telling everybody what a great man he is.

00:39:23 Buck Harris

Yeah, well, I, an-and I hear you. I hear you. We do need to go a break and I think we do need to put more pressure on the current administration before there's an election and say we want this stuff. OK, we do need to take a break that we got to pay for this show and we got to and that's done through our advertisers. So I'm going to do the first.

00:39:39-00:40:33 Buck Harris

You know I'm done salon hopping. Chazz Hair Care and Spa is more than I expected. I was tired of those cuts that looked good until I got home, never to be duplicated again. I expected a good cut and guess what? I got it. They told me how I could take care of it at home without pushing their line of hair care products, not that I would have minded. They carry Redken and Chair- and Clairol Logics. But what makes Chazz a cut above the rest? Well, you get pampered with full spa services, including manicure, facial and naso-therapy. Yesterday I had a massage and I got to tell you it put me out. I think that's why I'm so at ease tonight and it was great. The environment there, it is calm and nurturing. Chazz brings his little, he has one of those Shar-pei, but it's a great dog. Chazz hair care and salon is located at 13429 Detroit Ave, right across from St Edwards High School. It is more than you expect, and it's exactly what you deserve. Call 521-1999.

00:40:34-00:41:04 Queer Quick Credit Check Announcer

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00:41:05 Buck Harris

OK, one more spot I gotta plug. Premiere Screening, boy, what a great place. Michael Deegan, the- the owner is gay, it’s gay owned, and Michael did my T shirts. If you have a business or a softball team, whatever, make sure you get your T shirts from Premier Screening. They're out in Kent, but Michael Deegan, who owns the business, is living here in Cleveland. So, if you need pick-up or drop-off, he can make arrangements, you don’t have to truck all the way out to Kent. You gotta see our T shirts by the way, they are wonderful, it says gay 90s and you can get them at a couple places around town, including Gifts of Athena. And I'm going to give you a phone number in a little bit, I can't find it. By the way, most of our advertisers can be found in the Gay People's Chronicle.

00:41:46 Buck Harris

Speaking of Gay People’s Chronicle. We're going to go to Charlie's uh- the gay calendar, so...

00:41:52 Kevin Beanie

Here's a look at Charlie’s Calendar for our area from the pages of the Gay People's Chronicle. I'll be announcing some phone numbers for further information, so you may want to grab a pen. Tonight, there's a bar fundraiser going on for the Cleveland March on Washington Committee. If you want to volunteer or make a contribution, stop by Euphoria, that's tonight and it's at 10630 Berea Rd. 

00:42:11 Kevin Beanie

This weekend is Operation: Lift The Ban, a weekend to mobilize the community to end discrimination in the US military. That's sponsored by Stonewall Union and that takes place through Sunday. Call 781-6736 or 651-8338 for more information.

00:42:28 Kevin Beanie

This weekend and next on Friday and Saturday nights is the play ‘Could Angels Be Blessed’, by Nancy Kiefer. It's about a mother’s courage and acceptance of the truth about her dead son. It's set in post-war Cleveland and it’s showing at John Carroll University. 8:00 o'clock performances, $6 admission.

00:42:45 Kevin Beanie

Tomorrow night there's a bar fundraiser for the Cleveland March on Washington. This time it's at the Five Cent Decision, 4365 State Road. Call 661-1314 for more information. Also tomorrow night, Rhiannon is in concert at Ford Auditorium in the Allen Memorial Library. That's at 11000 Euclid Ave. Concert starts at 8:00 o'clock, it's a $15 admission. And on Sunday, Rhiannon is going to be holding a 3-hour vocal intensive workshop, if you're interested in that. There is a $50 advance registration, you can call 321-7799 for more information. 

00:43:21 Kevin Beanie

Next Saturday, April 3rd, couple things going on. The gay and lesbian conference and dance sponsored by Hugs East takes place from 4 to midnight, 974-8909 for more information. The See Jane Build project is holding a benefit, it's sponsored by the Five-Cent Decision that's next Saturday, April 3rd. There’ll be a raffle, instant bingo and other things that's at 4365 State Road. A Shabbat service sponsored by Chevrei Tikvah, with speakers from the AIDS Housing Council, also takes place on April 3rd. That'll be at the Unitarian Society, 2728 Lancashire, call 932-5551.

00:43:58 Kevin Beanie

And on Monday, April 5th, make plans to attend a gay town hall meeting. That's sponsored by Stonewall Cleveland, and they're showing the radical right propaganda video, the Gay Agenda. That's at Cleveland State University, 7:00 o'clock on Monday, April 5th, and on Tuesday, April 6th, is the 10th annual community Passover Seder. Sponsored by Chevrei Tikvah, that'll be at the Pewter Mug in Cedar Center.

00:44:21 Kevin Beanie

For more events and information, pick up a copy of the Gay People's Chronicle. It's available at more than 400 locations across northern Ohio, and if you or your group have something to announce, please let us know. Call the Chronicle during the day at 621-5280 or mail the information to PO Box 5426 Cleveland 44101. This is Kevin Beanie, editor of the Gay People's Chronicle, for The Gay 90’s.

00:44:46 The Gay 90’s Advertising Rates Spokeswoman

[Sound of a cash-register going cha-ching and then coins pouring over top of each other.] How would you like to reach Northeast Ohio's most exclusive and affluent audience with your advertising message? Advertising on this show is more reasonable than most print media and reaches a larger audience. After all, you're listening. Call 961-5806 to get in on the action.

00:45:03 Buck Harris

OK, we're going to go to Sue, she's calling long distance from Medina. Sorry for keeping you on the line so long, but you’re on.

00:45:08 Sue

No problem, how are you, Buck?

00:45:10 Buck Harris

I'm fine, how are you Susan?

00:45:10 Sue

I’m good, thanks. Listen I'm calling to suggest another perspective for an agenda here.

00:45:16 Buck Harris

OK.

00:45:17 Sue

My lover and I are expecting our first baby in about 3 weeks here-

00:45:20 Buck Harris

Ah!

00:45:21 Sue

-and parenting rights in the state of Ohio are a little bit archaic.

00:45:26 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:45:27 Sue

It’s statutory that parents be of one of each gender which has made, obviously, guardianship rights really curious. Uhm, just something else to think about.

00:45:37 Buck Harris

Sure. You know, there's a group in Columbus called Momazons and um.

00:45:40 Sue

Oh, I'm not familiar with them.

00:45:41

Yeah, and I'm going to be doing, Phyllis Gorman, who is the executive director of Stonewall down there-

00:45:46 Sue

Mm-hmm?

00:45:47 Buck Harris

-is a member of that group because she and her partner as well have brought a baby into their relationship. So, I promise you, we'll do a show on that and- and please call back and, and we’ll-

00:45:55 Sue

Congratulations to you.

00:45:56 Speaker 5

Thank you very much, I appreciate your call.

00:45:58 Sue

Thanks for doing the show.

00:45:59 Buck Harris

Thanks! You know, we got some giveaways and I'm forgetting to give away this stuff. All these people have been so generous and the things they've donated to us, but- Say what? ...So I've got to give away 2 tickets to the Cleveland Film Festival. Those tickets, by the way, are not for the opening or their closing night, but for our next caller who can answer this question.

00:46:17 Buck Harris

Who is it who said about homosexuals, “If there were no homosexuals, there would be no art, there would be no ballet, and Saks 5th Avenue would be self-serve"? For our next caller, let's see we're going to go to... David.. Line three? David, you're on! David?

00:46:35 David

...Yes?

00:46:36 Buck Harris

Are you awake and are you there?

00:46:38 David

Yeah, I’m there.

00:46:39 Buck Harris

OK, do you know who it is who said, ‘If it were not for homosexuals, there would be no ballet, there would be no culture, and Saks 5th Ave would be self-serve'?

00:46:48 David

Er...

00:46:49 Unknown Man

[From background of David’s call] Leona Helmsley.

00:46:51 Buck Harris

Leona Helmsley? Did someone in the background say-?

00:46:54 David

That was somebody in the background.

00:46:56 Buck Harris

Actually, it's someone much older than Leona Helmsley.

00:46:59 David

Will somebody-? [Unintelligible, sounds vaguely like “Michael”.]

00:47:01 Buck Harris

You know what? I need you to turn off, or turn down your radio, at least. We're getting an echo and I'm gonna have to go another caller if you don't turn it down.

00:47:06 David

Could you turn it down? ...The radio?  ...Please?

00:47:11 Buck Harris

OK... What's your- What's your question or comment?

00:47:15 David

My comment is, you know, engaged in the military, as far as.  Uh, Clinton goes he’s, he’s doing his-...

00:47:28 Buck Harris

You know you're going to need to really speak quickly, 'cause we're going to go to another call.

00:47:31 David

 I'm sorry he's- he's trying to do the best that he can.

00:47:36 Buck Harris

OK, thank you very much for calling. Joe, we're going to go to you in a minute, but I want to be fully end up this hour- Joe, will you hold on from Act Up? We're going to hear from act up in the second hour. I want to find out what the agenda is in regards to AIDS. We really haven't talked about the politics of AIDS and- Isn't it amazing? Aubrey looked at his watch and went my God, it's already- uh, but we're going to need to break for news in a minute.

00:47:56 Buck Harris

I- I want to give away some of this stuff. I got some tickets for the Cleveland Film Festival for our next caller. We're going to go to Stan. Stan, you're on.

00:48:04

Yes, uh, I'd just like to ask you a question. Do you support the- what Bill Clinton is saying about gays, segregating them in the military?

00:48:15 Buck Harris

No. Not at all, no. I think that’s ludicrous.

00:48:18 Stan

Because I was gonna say, uh, blacks! They don't segregate them in the military, why should they segregate homosexuals?

00:48:24 Buck Harris

Yes.

00:48:25 Stan

OK and now for my next question is, do you support civil rights for gays?

00:48:32 Buck Harris

Uh... gee... 

00:48:33 Aubrey Wertheim

Sure, sure... Right now.

00:48:33 Stan

What I'm saying is- I'm trying to say, do you support gays as minorities? Being accepted as minorities?

00:48:41 Buck Harris

I don't think it has an issue about minorities. I think it has the issue- For me- I, well, I- I talk too much. You guys talk.

00:48:48 Lee Robertson

Well, of course, that's what we've been saying. We deserve equal protection under the law. We don't have it.

00:48:52 Stan

Right you should- You deserve equal protection, but what I'm saying is, should you be a minority based on your sexual preference?

00:49:00 Aubrey Wertheim

Now the term is ‘sexual orientation’ and the answer is ‘yes’.

00:49:03 Stan

Yes?

00:49:04 Buck Harris

Yeah.

00:49:04 Stan

Well, I- I-, Well I’m a heterosexual and I'm not trying to be smart but-.

00:49:08 Buck Harris

Mm-hmm.

00:49:09 Aubrey Wertheim

You're succeeding.

00:49:11 Stan

[Laughs] I'm just saying that... Why- Why should you be considering minority, because you- you.Like men? Or, you know, your sexual preference?

00:49:22 Buck Harris

You know, it's just the fact that our numbers .I mean we are not as great as the numbers of heterosexuals and- and simply by definition that makes us a minority, but-

00:49:28 Stan

That's true. I'm not- I'm not saying that you know it's wrong, or anything that's fine, but I'm just saying that- that... You should not... I don't think that... Oh, I don't know.

00:49:41 Buck Harris

Well, you know what? I- I do hope you'll stay tuned, but we've got a bunch of calls lined up, we got 6 minutes left in this hour, we need to get to a couple more callers. Aubrey's got some stuff on his agenda so- so I appreciate your call. Would you please stay tuned and- and call back again?

00:49:53 Stan

Y-Yes.  I...  Cau-… Yes.

00:49:54 Buck Harris

Alright, great thank you very much.

00:49:56 Stan

OK.

00:49:57 Buck Harris

I do want to say, by the way, hello to- we got some bars and restaurants tuned in. Beauregard’s, enjoy your dinner there, please, and tune in, and stay tuned in. And Boardwalk in Canton and Higher Power, tt's a sober club at 52nd in Franklin, hello to you all there listening in, We appreciate your support. And- and call in!

00:50:15 Buck Harris

Anyway, Aubrey, what were you going to say?

00:50:17 Aubrey Wertheim

Mmm. A couple things. First of all, I just want to send a lot of love and affection to Robin Nelson plumped up on his pillows and that we're all thinking of him here. Also, one we'll need, we have at the center right now is African American lesbians for our youth program.

00:50:36 Aubrey Wertheim

If you like teens, if you can spend a Saturday with them for at least six months, just a couple hours in the morning we have a lot of young women who need role models who need support, who come every week to our gay lesbian youth program called Prism. And we need you just give us a call at 522-1999 and we'll tell you how you can become an adult advisor for our youth program.

00:51:04 Buck Harris

OK. Lee, what would you like to add?

00:51:07 Lee Robertson

Well also we needed volunteers for our renovation. We're at- We're renovating the center right now and every Sunday from 10 to 6, is that right? Aubrey?

00:51:17 Aubrey Wertheim

Mm-hmm!

00:51:17 Lee Robertson

Aubrey is coordinating a whole crew. You don't have to be an expert carpenter or, but if you're willing to learn, he'll put you to work. 

00:51:28 Buck Harris

Okay.

00:51:28 Lee Robertson

It's your Community Center, so just give us a call at 522-1999.

00:51:32 Buck Harris

All right, we're going to go to uhm, let's see... Bob from Twinsburg and Joe. If you hold on until after the hour, we're going to talk about ACT UP. So, let's see, Bob's on line two. Bob, are you there?

00:51:44 “Bob”

[coughs] Hello?

00:51:46 Buck Harris

Yeah, Bob.

00:51:46 Gary

Oh no, this is Gary.

00:51:48 Buck Harris

Oh, I'm sorry I got it screwed-... OK, Gary, how are you?

00:51:50 Gary

Alright! I- I just want to make a comment here if. Most of the heterosexual people out there are just creating more problems for the gay people. If they just mind their own business and what's going on and take a better focal view of point, and look at everything around them, our neighborhood, and our community, and everyone could live happily ever after.

00:52:12 Gary

And be like it was in Mayberry. You know, we don't need all of this, people saying ‘no, you can't do this, you shouldn't do that.’ It's like too stupid, you know, let- let everybody be who themselves and let them feel proud of who we are.

00:52:26 Buck Harris

All right, let's see what Aunt Bee has to say about that.

00:52:28 Lee Robertson

[laughs] Well, I think that-.

00:52:29 Aubrey Wertheim

Aunt Bee should have come out.  Why didn’t Aunt Bee come out?

00:52:30 Lee Robertson

Really!  She should’ve [unintelligible/gets drowned out]

00:52:31 Buck Harris

Boy, yeah she was never married or anything, c’mon Aunt Bee!

00:52:35 Aubrey Wertheim

Yeah, you know she and Clara...

00:52:33 Lee Robertson

Well, I think I agree mostly with what you said, except that I don't want heterosexuals to mind their own business, I want them to embrace our lives. We are their mothers and their- and their- and our daughters and brothers and our uncles, and we're all a family and we need to embrace each other. So I want heterosexual people to understand that it's in their best interest to support um, lesbian and gays, and the lesbians and gays in their life.

00:53:00 Buck Harris

OK, we're going to take one more call, then we’re going to go to a national news break.

00:53:02 Gary

[very faintly] Wait.

00:53:04 Buck Harris

And so, we're going to go to, I think this should be Bob from Twinsburg.

00:53:08 The Real Bob

Yes.

00:53:08 Buck Harris

All right, Bob, are you calling long distance?

00:53:10 The Real Bob

No.

00:53:11

Oh, all right, well then, I don't mind waiting puttin’ ya on hold for a bit I'm sorry. Go ahead, you're on.

00:53:15 The Real Bob

A lesbian.

00:53:19 Buck Harris

Yes?

00:53:20 Aubrey Wertheim

Was that your comment?

00:53:21 The Real Bob

Well...

00:53:22 Buck Harris

For this we waited? Next caller, actually, no. What we're going to do is we're gonna- we're gonna break, but, well, you know what? I want to also plug the Stonewall event that's coming up on, uh- April...

00:53:33 Lee Robertson

April 5th.

00:53:34 Buck Harris

5th, yeah.

00:53:35 Lee Robertson

Monday night.

00:53:36 Buck Harrison

And that’s a town meeting, how great? And it's going to be where, Lee?

00:53:39 Lee Robertson

It's going to be at the Cleveland State University University Center, room 364. It's 2121 Euclid.

00:53:42 Buck Harris

OK.

00:53:46 Buck Harris

And the purpose of the town meeting?

00:53:47 Lee Robertson

They're- they're going to gather gays and lesbians together to discuss the- the whole right-wing initiatives that are happening in Ohio in terms of- of the amendments prohibiting any laws protecting our equal rights, and they're also going to be viewing The Gay Agenda.

00:54:01 Buck Harris

OK.

00:54:07 Buck Harris

OK.

00:54:07 Lee Robertson

A video that the religious right put together.

00:54:09 Buck Harris

That's great, I got to remind you all to look at the Gay People's chronicle. This stuff is all announced in there, so pick it up at Mini or-

00:54:16 Lee Robertson

Or the What She Wants.

00:54:17 Buck Harris

Or What She Wants, yeah. So you know, I gotta warn you, we're going to have lots of giveaways in the second hour. It's going to be open mic, we're going to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about and- and prizes for just about everybody who calls.

00:54:29 Buck Harris

Karen is going to be joining me here in the studio and we're going to talk to you. Lee and Aubrey, I- I'm so appreciative of your being here and I trust you’ll come back?

00:54:36 Aubrey Wertheim

Yeah. 

00:54:36 Lee Robertson

Yeah, sure, thanks for having us.

00:54:39 Buck Harris

Although you- you're going on to a different life, a different career.

00:54:39 Lee Robertson

Yeah, but I’ll still be here.

00:54:40 Buck Harris

You'll stick around, huh?

00:54:41 Lee Robertson

Yeah.

00:54:41 Buck Harris

Yeah, and- and Aubrey I hear you're going to write more and damned if you shouldn't, you're so good. I'm really excited and happy for you. We're going to-

00:54:48 Aubrey Wertheim

Mutual Admiration Society, here.

00:54:48 Buck Harris

It's great! Yeah.

00:54:49 Lee Robertson

[Laughs]

00:54:50 Buck Harris

Yeah, you write now talk. How’s that? I need someone to write for me. We're going to go to the national news. By the way, next week we'll be interrupted because we're going to be running late because of the Crunch, so, but we'll be- we'll be here next week at 10:00 o'clock.

00:55:04 Buck Harris

Stay tuned for the next hour, we'll be right back.

00:55:05 [Romanovsky and Phillips plays again]

...I’m sure there are men that just need some unstraightening-

00:55:13 NBC News Announcer

NBC Radio news. The first Clinton defense budget will officially be made public tomorrow, but most details are already known. Correspondent Joe Walsh says it will total $263 billion for the coming fiscal year, 12 billion below the Bush proposal- [Audio cuts out at 00:55:26]